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Fall Colors 2015

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normkern:

--- Quote from: wardie on October 16, 2015, 05:42:16 pm ---Okay since my comment seemed to have started this whole ride thing I'll state my thoughts with no malice or intent towards anyone. I appreciate Norms comments , and can understand about selected riders in a group. I was a little put off because no one asked me during any of the conversation that night about my skill set. ...

 Larry aka Wardie

--- End quote ---

Wardie,

FWIW, that evening, I wasn't concerned about your skill set or whether your bike could "keep up." (Someone else brought that up.) My first thought was about a line of riders getting longer with two newcomers. Some of the people in my group ride with me because they don't want to ride in a large group and they know I'm careful about that. They would be asking me why I took on two more riders.

At the same time, I was looking at the situation from your point of view. You're bringing someone new to an MSTA event to show them how much fun it is and bring them on board. Then you get snubbed. I hated every moment of that, but was stuck in the middle.

How would you feel if you were regularly put in a public position where you're expected to take on strangers and newcomers, then have to look like a dick to them when you have to decline.

I got screwed big time a couple of years ago when I had a nice group of 4 other riders at a rally. Then another friend crashed the party with two newbies in tow who were completely unprepared. He doesn't navigate so he can't take the new guys on his own and I get stuck with all 3 of them. That was only the beginning of a long horror story that led me to make a rule:

If you bring someone new to a rally, be prepared to ride with them and be prepared to lead.

Just another reason for my perspective that everyone needs to learn to navigate and needs to be able to lead the ride.

Best wishes,

Norm Kern

Patmo:
I agree that having a GPS, and knowing how to use it, makes leading a ride much easier.  But, depending on it can also cause problems and/or lead to opportunities to ride new roads....:).  A lot of thst depends on how well its programmed and how adept one is at using it.  I speak from experience on both ends of thst spectrum....having used a GPS at TriStar and finally being able to ride the Indisn Valley route without missing any turns, and having had some problems with following routes a few other times at other rallies.  However, I blame most of thst on my own inexperience and lack of GPS "savvy".  But it's all good.....

"When you don't care where you're going.....any road will get you there."

Patmo:

--- Quote from: normkern on October 17, 2015, 06:31:36 am --- a rule:

If you bring someone new to a rally, be prepared to ride with them and be prepared to lead.

Just another reason for my perspective that everyone needs to learn to navigate and needs to be able to lead the ride.



--- End quote ---

I think this is a good rule.....and FWIW, keep in mind it doesn't say you WILL have to lead, it only says to be PREPARED.  There is only so much we can do as a "club"  to make new people feel welcome.  The MSTA Ambassador program, started at the last STAR, is the newest program to be put into effect.  But all of the program's we have tried do rely on current members volunteering to take new members under their wing.  Most of the time this works out really well and everyone is happy, but not always.  But, this program has the advantage of the leader being s volunteer and knowing that they might have to adjust their own riding style to accomidate someone else, and being willing to do so beforehand.  The ride sheets used at STAR, which were set up to accomidate different riding "styles" and keep the group sizes small, are a template thst could be used at all the rallies, as needed.  But it takes volunteers to do this.  I encourage anyone thst would feel comfortable doing this to step up and volunteer at least once.  Most of the rallies we have would only need one person, for one day, to have this work. 

dpippin:

--- Quote from: Patmo on October 16, 2015, 10:36:37 am ---Norm...

.while I agree with you that the leader must be able to navigate, I do have to disagree with you about "needing" a GPS to do so......even though I do have one now, and am making "friends" with it, LOL.  The ability to read a map has helped me navigate thousands of miles over the years without needing or using a GPS.  I realize that the GPS is the wave of the future, but a basic knowledge of how to read a map is still a basic need if one hopes to develop and use routes.
 

--- End quote ---

Pat
In order to create GPS routes you have to be able to read and use maps, whether they are on paper or on a computer screen.

When GPS routes are created by the organizers then offered to event participants, its important that participants review the routes prior to the event so they'll know where they are going.
Your GPS just shows your a view of a small portion of the route. You need to have a knowledge of the whole route and a general idea where it goes
I think it would be very confusing to just follow that line on the GPS and not have any idea where you are and where your going.

Doug

wardie:
Norm now that it has been explained I certainly  understand the situation you were put in. I did lead the ride on Saturday and several times through the 200 mile jaunt Nate led. Nate is a skilled rider just quiet. Nate is a computer programmer and easily downloaded the maps into his gps. I just used my gps to locate where we were and where we needed to go. I always carry maps in case my modern technology (Garmin) should fail I need to know how to get home probably being an old fart and an IBA member I never forget a map of the area.

I'm glad to see that their is a Ambassador/volunteer program and if I'm at an MSTA Rally and asked I certainly would volunteer to lead a ride, but I'd have a riders meeting before hand go over the general rules and each's responsibilities probably much like you do with your guys.

Nate has gone on a couple of BMW Rallys (were crashed them with Hondas ) and I've had him lead several times so I could judge his skill set  . I think because he has ridden with me a few times he wanted to experience "group" riding. Honestly I never asked why I sure thought we were fine but it was a request and I invited him so I too was put into a position I'm not all together comfortable with and that is asking to join a group. Last year at Fly By I knew there were going to be some guys who could carve and one of them I knew and tagged along last year and had a blast .

Nate had a good time albeit the rain and is interested in doing more MSTA events. I appreciate this forum and airing out situations and ideas. Thanks to all.

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