Main Forums > General Discussion

Why did you participate in rider training

<< < (2/4) > >>

STLTHMSTA:
Well Geoffrey, this is almost like opening a oil thread.  LOL ;^)   I agree you CAN stop shorter with a non-abs bike but that is under optimum conditions and planning ahead to do so. ABS is designed to do it's thing under less than good conditions. What about a surprise?? How many times have we had a knee jerk reaction and screwed up our reaction to the situation? The science and dynamics is more than we'll discuss here but if you can prevent locking and tucking the front wheel, which IS GOING to make you fall down, asb is there to prevent that.
I understand your frustration with that class as it was taught without FULL explanation of the inner workings of the brakes, pros and cons.  YM

stevegrab:
I don't keep my training up like I should, but I was surprised years ago when I took the basic MSF course and talked to other experienced riders about counter steering. Some claimed they didn't do it, and that it wasn't a key part of riding. One rider even got onto a bike in a riding position (semi tuck on sport bike) and I asked them to simulate a turn, and they talked about how they leaned and hung off the bike. Look at your arms I said, didn't you just push forward with your hand on the insde bar?

I think it is Keith Code or one of the others that has a bike that teaches this somehow, forget the priniciple. For me the MSF course demonstration was done with a large bicycle wheel that had pegs on the sides. Instructor spun the wheel and told a student to "turn left" and we asll saw the wheel move a bit to the left, then rotate back and dip in hard to the right.

If I had a bike with ABS I'd like rely on it, just like I do in the car. Maybe I could do better, with the proper conditions and practice.

HawkGTRider:
I've heard some say that countersteering only occurs at speeds above a particular threshold. I've even heard some MSF RiderCoaches say something to that effect, but you won't find that in any of MSF's written materials (one of our local guys used to say it only worked above 8 mph.). For me, I'm more of the opinion that unless you are traveling at a speed so slow that other actions may have a greater effect, countersteering is the only way to quickly change your direction. At normal highway speeds, shifting your body weight will alter your direction some, but not very accurately nor quickly. Shifting body weight seems to have more of an effect at slow speeds, but it's not very fast, not very accurate, and with little control. Even turning your head will have a small effect, but it's not effective.

People who say they don't countersteer must have a different definition of what it is, or they DO countersteer.

RE: ABS...
If you watch the above referenced video, you'll see that when the wheels reach a point when they are turning at different speeds (just before a wheel locks up...which may lead to a loss of control), the electronics activate some change to try to avoid that happening. It's a lot more about having consistent control than it is about stopping faster or slower.

NinjaBob:
I disagree with the countersteering concept. To me we are not pushing the bar in the counter direction but pushing the bike DOWN in the direction it needs to lean. Don't get me wrong, I am doing what you all call contersteering I just think it is a wrong way to describe it. I absorbed Nick Iesnasch (sp?)cornering techniques  and feel I learned to use them well after many track days and use them on the street. As for courses I've taken MSF, WERA track safety course required for race license, a racing course by a WERA racing friend at my local track and the Sport Touring track day school at Jennings GP sponsored by MSTA and GOG a few years back. I use to practice threshold breaking and used to be good at it. But now with three bikes with ABS that all work slightly different and getting old I am just relying more on the electronics.

HawkGTRider:
I can appreciate differences of opinion...thinking about stuff may lead me to a better overall understanding of how something works. Bring  on the different thoughts.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page