STAR 2018 Full survey results

[STLTHMSTA]

"Trade in" was merely an expression. Not literally trading it in as if to another dealer. Wheelin' dealing' swapping' train', I got what you meant, Jon. 
having said that.... IF I had won the bike it would have transformed in to the Z900 that was on the dealers floor.  Did anyone mention what a great dealership that was?? Friendly helpful and NOT pushy.

[brider]

I'm with Tom.  A Z900 would have been for me too.  However, all that said and done this year's winner sure looked happy to me. 

[stevegrab]

I've talked with Pat and I get it now, sorry for any misunderstanding. Raffle bike winners has options, that is entirely between them and the dealer/manufacturer, MSTA is not involved and there is no formal agreement allowing any swapping. How easy it is to do will depend on the dealer, the state where the winner lives and other factors.

[Ride4MS]

For those people that did not know, Sherry and Doug brought 4 bikes to La Crosse.  2 ADV and 2 Sport Touring and went home five.


Doug sent me a message a few days ago, he rode Sherry's new Raffle Bike and like it so well, he went bought one for himself.

[naustin]

Well after all that - I'd just like to pipe in and say that I agree with Pat regarding the fact that the raffle bike needs to be for the whole club, not just STAR attendees.   


Can you do some kind of online raffle system for the tickets, etc?   Make it a year-long fund-raiser and sell tickets non-stop from the day after STAR, until the next STAR when the bike is awarded.   


If its online, you can advertise the raffle in STAReview everytime it comes out, or even send emails on a monthly basis inviting people to click a link an buy another ticket.   


Also, you could include a Poll with 3 options attached to the raffle, and the more tickets you buy, the more votes you get on what the actual bike should be.   That way the majority of ticket buyers have some say in what the prize ends up being.   If you don't like the bike - you should have bought more tickets and thus submitted more votes.


Since I have an FJR as my primary Sport-Tourer, let me be the first to submit a vote for the Honda 250L Rally as a raffle bike next year.  MRSP only $6,200 with ABS.

[stevegrab]

Well after all that - I'd just like to pipe in and say that I agree with Pat regarding the fact that the raffle bike needs to be for the whole club, not just STAR attendees.   


Can you do some kind of online raffle system for the tickets, etc?   Make it a year-long fund-raiser and sell tickets non-stop from the day after STAR, until the next STAR when the bike is awarded.   


If its online, you can advertise the raffle in STAReview everytime it comes out, or even send emails on a monthly basis inviting people to click a link an buy another ticket.   


Also, you could include a Poll with 3 options attached to the raffle, and the more tickets you buy, the more votes you get on what the actual bike should be.   That way the majority of ticket buyers have some say in what the prize ends up being.   If you don't like the bike - you should have bought more tickets and thus submitted more votes.


Since I have an FJR as my primary Sport-Tourer, let me be the first to submit a vote for the Honda 250L Rally as a raffle bike next year.  MRSP only $6,200 with ABS.

A few points
- raffle bike is open to ALL MSTA members, not just those attending STAR
-raffle tickets are sold online, usually starting in January, 6 months or so should be plenty
- tickets used to be mailed to every member, a very large expense that the EC decided was not worth it
- only time tickets are sold to STAR attendees (but not other members) is at the event

I'm really not sure what Pat meant with the statement about making it for all MSTA, and not just STAR. He said
"At this point I can’t imagine getting rid of the bike raffle, but somehow we need to make it an MSTA bike raffle and not just a STAR bike raffle.  We need to engage many more members than just those attending STAR."

As for selling tickets year round, and long before a bike is selected, doesn't sound realistic to me. Maybe some would buy, but will it generate more sales? Then add a complexity of ticket buyers voting on the bike being raffled, sounds like lot of extra work for the existing volunteers.

Not sure why members do or don't buy tickets, maybe we could get some feedback. I forgot to buy them at a discount, then got 5 at registration, but some years I haven't bought any, often when I have little interest in the bike selected.

PS  Sorry we have turned this thread into a discussion of the raffle bike.

[naustin]

https://rallyup.com/raffles/

[Patmo]

I'm really not sure what Pat meant with the statement about making it for all MSTA, and not just STAR. He said
"At this point I can’t imagine getting rid of the bike raffle, but somehow we need to make it an MSTA bike raffle and not just a STAR bike raffle.  We need to engage many more members than just those attending STAR."

“Perception is reality”......many of our members seem to perceive that this is a “STAR” raffle. 

Possibly because of how it is presented.  The raffle bike is announced as part of the STAR information.  The TICKETS purchased as part of registering for STAR. Physical tickets sales are only at STAR.  The drawing is at the STAR banquet.

Our pre-STAR sales were extremely dismal this past year.  In fact this was the first year where AT STAR sales exceeded PRE STAR sales.  In 2017 it was almost an even split.  Up until the last two years we have always had much higher pre-star sales than at-star sales, not even close.  We need to get back to that somehow.


It’s OK that this has turned into a raffle bike discussion.....based on the survey results, I would say that the raffle bike process and results are the #1 problem that came out of this year’s STAR.  The location, weather, hotel, roads, routes, etc. all seem to have come off as very popular.  But the raffle process...not so much.


I think that it is great that people are coming up with ideas on how to make it better.  Can’t keep doing the same old things and expecting it to get better on its own.  New ideas are always welcome!

[stevegrab]

Pat,

Curious where you get that perception on raffle bike being STAR vs. MSTA, did you hear that from some members. (I read the comments and didn't get that vibe,) Are they newer members, first time attendees? Is this perception related in some way to the change in no longer sending out tickets in the mail?. (How long ago was that change, I'd guess about 5 years.) The raffle bike was always given away at the banquet, tickets were sold at the banquet, and could also be bought when registering. So what's the root cause of this perception it is STAR only? (Really curious if not mailing is a primary factor. I could see those who never attend STAR feeling like its more trouble now to go online and buy them.)

Wasn't there a general raffle bike announcement in STAReview, or by email? Or was it really only tied to announcing STAR, and tickets sold as part of registering for STAR.

Nick (naustin),
As for the rallyup.com site, not sure how that solves all the problems or doesn't still mean work for the volunteers. We already have a way to sell tickets online, that is not the issue. The logistics of selling without picking a bike, having ticket purchase tied to some poll to vote on the bike, etc.

[Patmo]

Steve...

If you do a search on either the FB page or in this forum for the words “faffle Bike”, you will find that many times it is referred to as the STAR raffle bike, and that most of the time the discussion of the raffle bike is somehow tied to a STAR discussion. I’ve also heard this term many times in person from members.  The numbers in regards to ticket sales pre-STAR vs. on-site at STAR are also an indication in my mind that more and more members are associating the raffle with STAR.  I am certainly not saying that ALL members think this way.  But it seems to me that more and more members are trending this way.

This is not a yes/no, either/or, always/never question or answer....it’s more along the line of a often or rarely situation and how it is trending.  Seems to me that it used to be rare, but is becoming more common. Don’t even know if it’s a majority, but I’m hearing it enough to have a concern that too many of our members are thinking this way.

[PF Flyers]

Also you must consider that the last 4 bikes were won by attendees. Lol

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[HawkGTRider]

Also you must consider that the last 4 bikes were won by attendees. Lol

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

When the majority of tickets, or close to it, are being sold at STAR, it only makes sense that the winner is likely to be there. Seems like we had a lot of years when the winner was not there, and those years correspond to the years when more tickets were sold outside of STAR. All of that is pretty easy to understand.

In a slightly different direction, I wonder if we should go to a bi-annual (or even less frequent) bike raffle. Perhaps doing it less than every year would make it more interesting by adding more anticipation. Perhaps we're just getting a bit of "overload" when we're talking about next year's raffle almost as soon as this one is done. It would allow for more planning, longer to make a bike selection, etc. I used to think the bike raffle was a club member "benefit", but I've come to realize it's more of a benefit for the association itself (assuming you can separate the two). If we're struggling to make money on the bike raffle, something needs to change.

[Landon]

 If we're struggling to make money on the bike raffle, something needs to change.

Absolutely. If we cannot turn a profit we shouldn't do it. It doesn't help that membership declines and bike prices continue to rise. Simple economics, it makes the bike raffle tough to survive.

[Patmo]

I wish there was a way to verify this..... it is  my guess that the majority of tickets sold pre-STAR the last few years were to people planning to attend STAR.   But that’s just a guess on my part.

We know for sure that last year the sales AT STAR were 2X what we sold pre-STAR.

[brider]

I wish there was a way to verify this..... it is  my guess that the majority of tickets sold pre-STAR the last few years were to people planning to attend STAR.   But that’s just a guess on my part.

We know for sure that last year the sales AT STAR were 2X what we sold pre-STAR.

I'm going to sound like a old man here but back when I was running the raffle and we did the mailing we sold a lot of tickets in advance each year.  I would guess 1/2 of the total.  The last year I ran it we did the discounted advance tickets and that drove a lots of sales even with it being electronic.  However we promoted it on the club website a bunch.    Last couple of years I think we have slipped away from promoting the raffle the way we used to do it.   I don't recall seeing any promotion on here or the devils spawn (FB)  Yes I think FB is a lousy tool for the club.)   My guess is Tom had similar results when he ran the raffle. 
 
Point of all this is if you look back to my original post everyone seems to be avoiding the best and maybe only way to make money year after year on a raffle bike.  We really need to look at opening it up to outside the club.  Its a 2 fold win for MSTA.  Profits go to the club and we just might gain some members in the process.   

Hell yes I would love to win a discounted bike (notice I did not say free.  It doesn't exist)  but its time we got real.  We made little to no profit on a great low price point M/C this year and people complained that the raffle folks were pushy.   Time to make a change. 

Flame suit on again.