STAR NON-attendees……two questions

[Patmo]

Year after year we seem to have the same attendees at STAR and the % of members that attend has remained in the 25-30% range almost every year.  So for those of you that did NOT attend STAR and/or don’t normally attend a STAR, a couple of questions….

1) Why didn’t you or don’t you attend?

2) What would it take to get you at attend?

Please discuss….but remember this is for NON-attendees please.  I will start a separate “how to improve STAR” thread for those that attend on a regular basis.

[DRB]

In answer to question number one three factors: location, time and COVID-19.  I have attended five STARS over the years the number one driver for me is the site location.  Number two is how much time away from my work can I afford in any given year, what other major travel do I have planned.  Finally the national state of COVID is not such that we are traveling much of anywhere.

As for what would it take you can only control the location.  A highly desirable location is our primary driver for attending STAR.  Even with a great  location there are always other factors that may prevent me from attending.

Rick Brant

[09FJRrider]

Member since 2018, love the people and the association and the SE regional and JFF events.  Have yet to attend a STAR (Although I would really like to)

1) It usually comes down to travel cash available and PTO days balance
I can run out for a 4 day weekend trip a few times a year, but the week long hotel bill and more PTO days to take off are harder to swallow.

2) Just a personal thing to get some more family income and travel money saved up for next year..

[60Aviator]

Was registered and planned on attending my first STAR. But after the unbearable heat at MOA National in Springfield was not looking forward to even hotter weather so home I went then off to WV where it was nice weather.

[stevegrab]

I posted some in another thread where the question was asked...

I've attended a lot of STAR events, initially just those within a day or two ride of home (NE Ohio). Then I did a few out west, and really enjoyed those thanks to other members who showed me the ropes of trailering to an event, and had the trailer/tow vehicle as well.

For 2020 I planned to attend, then it was canceled. I was itching for things to do and did MPFB both 2020 and 2021, and STAR in 2021 as well. But I decided to do another trip with my brother that we had been trying to do before, riding the Deal's Gap area. So we went to Tri-STAR then on to Robinsville. Had I know that we'd be having STAR in Knoxville in 2022 I might have gone to STAR this year and waited for 2023 to hit the Gap. (I was apparently confused and thinking STAR would be in Colorado in 2023 and wanted to attend that, so another big trip to the Gap was probably not in the cards for 2023.

For me if it is within a 2 day ride, and the location (roads, sites, etc) look good, and I can get away from work I'll go. Well I also like to travel and room with another rider, so that part needs to come together. We have a conference from work that also occurs in mid-June, that prevented me from attending a few STARs. I may not need to attend as regularly, so it might not be an issue. But it still makes it a bit difficult to manage.

PS  We may need to accept that our numbers won't return to prior times, especially as our membership number have declined. I've been a member since 2001, attended a dozen STAR in that time (odd years for a decade, then like 5 straight in early 2010s and 3 of the last 7) and recall much larger events, with numbers more like 500 or more. But the membership numbers were higher, and the membership was also younger.

[Larry Fine]

As a relatively newer member, and having attended only one STAR event (at Canaan Valley; you may remember me: tall, walked with a limp), I would like to add my two cents' worth. This seems to be a rich person's riding group.

Maybe I've been spoiled by the ST Owners forum's events, but after missing some work days, having to save up enough to pay my share of a cabin rental, and paying for the gasoline and food for the trip there and back, and during the three days of riding, I simply can't afford the $100 or more in registration fees or whatever the additional event costs are called.

By the time I get home from a long-weekend riding event, I'm usually flat broke in addition to being exhausted. Had I known about the extra fees involved with the MSTA's rides ahead of time, I probably would not have attended.

[Patmo]

Larry you make a good point.  STAR events ARE expensive.  They are expensive to put on, and they are expensive to attend. The hotels certainly cost us a lot for the meals that are provided and for the rental of meeting and banquet spaces. Unfortunately we do need to pass those costs along to the attendees.  For those of us who are not “rich”, the expanses involved in traveling to and from the event, and the expenses involved in attending an event, are only part of the considerations.  I am sure that there are many that just simply can’t afford the costs involved.  I know that for many years I couldn’t, even if I could have found the time off work. However, the same costs are involved in almost any kind of travel, especially when traveling to an event that one plans to attend.  How people can afford to take kids on a vacation to Disney and like these days boggles my mind!

But the costs for our regional/local rallies are usually much lower than any STAR event. In fact, many have no rally fees and their shorter durations mean less hotel costs.  Generally the hotels are less expensive to begin with too.  Some of them have camping opportunities for those wanting to save even more money (however, camping costs have certainly risen the last few years, haven’t they?  $50 dollar a night?! To camp?! WTH?). 

I don’t buy the idea that we are a club of “rich” people.  But STARs certainly aren’t on the cheap side, I will admit that. I sincerely wish that we could find a way to make STAR events less costly, but I fear that I am in the minority when it comes to that opinion.  Meanwhile, I am very happy that the regional/local rallies provide us with much less expensive alternatives.

[HawkGTRider]

What I was thinking but hadn't formulated in my head how to say.

[Larry Fine]

Pat, thank you for responding, and not negatively, as I was afraid I might cause you to.

At the several-a-year riding weekends I have attended, mostly with the ST group, the only costs are our own. The major known cost is the share of cabin rental, which is organized in the event thread, and delegated to cabin-masters.

We voluntarily chip in for the food our hosts generously provide for breakfasts and suppers, and we're on our own for our lunch and rest stops, as well as any drinks or snacks we want. I usually bake extra-chocolaty brownies for the group.

There are no organized events in the evenings like what I saw you have at the Canaan lodge. We normally just hang out around the fire ring outside one or two cabins at night. The basis of our weekends is ride, eat, drink, and relax.

I joined the MSTA because I was looking for more than two or three weekend rides a year. I hadn't realized that your events are so much about the organized event, and not just about the riding like what I am used to. Not bad, just different.

Anyway, thank you again. Now that I have had my hip replacement done, and I can walk upright again, I can't wait to get back on my bike for the upcoming fall riding trips.

[STLTHMSTA]

Larry, I can agree with you on costs, but all things are relative. I'm the first one to gripe about the cost of things not just here but in general. I'm so cheap I'm still riding an '02 ST myself. That goes for the riding too. Everybody's different. Compared to other groups I know, we ride circles around them. If ya didn't get enough riding in then pick the longer route or add an extra loop in before heading back. There is no set time to be back at the hotel.
The EC does their best to negotiate a group rate for us and try to get value for the buck.  Speaking of which, that's my .02 worth.     TM

[Patmo]

Larry, our local/regional events are very similar to what you describe. Our STAR events are MUCH more organized and involved than the local/regional events.  Much More.  The meetings, seminars, banquets, door prizes, short sales, vendors, etc. are not common parts of most of the non-STAR events.  Consequently, STAR rally fees are high because we have to pay for a lot of that stuff.  Our food bill at Canaan Valley was around $10,000.  It was higher than that at Bristol and this past year at Cape Girardeau.  On top of that, we’ve had to pay for hall/room rental and use of Audio-visual equipment at some STAR venues. Most non-STAR events don’t have those things and thus have much lower or no rally fee at all. Those that have a fee are usually using that money as a donation to a charity and/or include a meal in the evening. Fees at non-STAR events range from$0-$25, with most being $0.

(My RRG Rally that starts tomorrow has no rally fee this year.  I am asking for donations (suggestion is $10) for the Eastern Kentucky Flood Relief Fund, and I’m providing the ice and water out of my own pocket.  I’m also covering the cost of the on-line registration site, which is pretty minimal.)


 I’ve attended a few ST-owners events, and have enjoyed them.  But there are some differences, no doubt. 

For one….we generally don’t do big pot-luck dinners like you describe and like what I’ve seen.  I’m not sure exactly why that is and how things have morphed into what they are.  Possibly because our members seem to like hotels over cabins/camping? Anyway, since most of our events are what we call Just For Fun, there aren’t rally fees at most of them, and usually they are set up at hotels that have breakfast included in the room fee.  Lunch and dinner are on your own, and most people catch a light lunch on the road and a nice dinner with friends.  Some of the events do have a cookout or dinner like you describe on one or more of the nights, but not all hotels will allow such things.

Secondly….and I’m not sure that this is a part of all ST gatherings….we don’t do “group” rides.  People like to break up into smaller 3-5 person groups of riders that have similar riding styles and ride a route that all of the group members want to ride. They take off when they all agree too, they ride the distance that they want to, stop when they want to, and ride at the speed that they are all comfortable going.

I’m not saying that one way is better or worse than they other…just that they are different.

The evenings are pretty much exactly what you describe (and I’ve seen) at STOC events.  The order of the day is hanging out, enjoying some adult beverages, and enjoying the company of other attendees.

So, like an ST group meet….the biggest expense is the shared cost of a hotel room, followed by the cost of lunch and/or dinner.  Other costs are usually just gas and the cost of any beverages and snacks consumed during the evenings.

Please try to attend an event local to you.  I think you’ll find them very enjoyable and fairly inexpensive.

[Larry Fine]

Pat, that sounds great. Isn't there a geographic event calendar, one that shows where events are on a map?

[stevegrab]

I don't think we are a rich persons group, but I know that I personally can afford to attend most events I want without hardship on my finances. A lot of that is my own personal situation, mid 50s, single and no family, with a good job. But I still like to save money, share a room and try to avoid the most expensive meal options. Our STAR events have gotten more expensive in the last 10 years compared to the other events. Some of that is a change in regional events away from having meals at the event, or any fee at all.

Most times I've attended STAR, especially when out west or somewhere far from home I've never been I don't return home on Thursday I extend the trip at least a few days, those trips out west extend a full week. The hotels and meals during those days usually balance out my daily hotel/food expenses compared to STAR.

I know some years ago talking with a few younger members I came to understand that sport touring like many in the MSTA is hard to do if younger and raising a family. The time away from spouse and kids, the expense. Heck just having a motorcycle, often a true leisure vehicle for some, primarily used for fun and not just to get somewhere you need to go can be difficult.

PS  The original post about costs mentioned $100 rally fee, I don't think I've ever seen anything that high even for STAR, maybe $50 or a bit more, but it could be I just haven't noticed (and only did one STAR in the past 4-5 years).

[Patmo]

Pat, that sounds great. Isn't there a geographic event calendar, one that shows where events are on a map?

There is one in the STAReview magazine that you should be getting if you’re a full dues paying member.  Otherwise, if you go to the MSTA website and click on the events tab, you can find a calendar listing that also links you to the event information.

[Paco Bulto]

. 

PS  The original post about costs mentioned $100 rally fee, I don't think I've ever seen anything that high even for STAR, maybe $50 or a bit more, but it could be I just haven't noticed (and only did one STAR in the past 4-5 years).

Hi, Steve, Just an FYI, STAR registration at Cape this year was $80.