Red Light Sensors

[Kevin]

Here is an article I found very informative and thought I'd share the link.  This has happened to me many many times.  I usually just look all around and if I do not see any LEO, I run the light. Further down in the article is a table with states where running the light is allowed, many with conditions.


http://www.bikebandit.com/community/articles/dead-red-laws-motorcycles-run-red-lights-legally?roi=echo3-25100854497-25818437-0f2c12f2a5c43ad53a8361cc2460d75d&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Friday_022015_BBNews_Video_Spotlight&utm_source=Friday_022015&utm_content=dead_red_laws

[GlibGuy]

Interesting and informative.   Thanks for sharing!

[HawkGTRider]

I really hate the term "running the light" as it relates to this issue. However....

Here in Tennessee, our law is as follows:

"Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, the driver of a motorcycle approaching an intersection that is controlled by a traffic-control signal utilizing a vehicle detection device that is inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle shall come to a full and complete stop at the intersection and, after exercising due care as provided by law, may proceed with due caution when it is safe to do so. It is not a defense to a violation of § 55-8-109 that the driver of a motorcycle proceeded under the belief that a traffic-control signal utilized a vehicle detection device or was inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle when the signal did not utilize a vehicle detection device or that the device was not in fact inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle."

I don't care for the "inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle" part. As I understand, the inductive loop systems commonly found here can be calibrated to detect bicycles without causing false positives. If the systems can be calibrated to accommodate bicycles, they can surely handle any motorcycle.

One of my riding friends was ticketed for running a light when he didn't wait for a specific number of light cycles. Rather than argue with the officer, he went to court. After presenting a copy of the law to the judge, the ticket was thrown out, and the officer was appropriately embarrassed.

The bottom line here is that we aren't required to wait for a specific number of light cycles (good since they may not cycle if we're the only ones at the light), nor are we required to wait for a specified time. I really like that we can wait until we are fairly sure the inductive loop isn't detecting our presence, confirm the light IS a traffic controlled signal, confirm that it's clear, and then proceed with caution. I see a parallel to treating it like it's a stop sign once I've confirmed it's not detecting me.

[DrTizz]

From what I understand here in Cali, the majority (not the vast majority, unfortunately) end up found not guilty if CVC 21800(d)(1) is used as a defense.  It reads:

"The driver of any vehicle approaching an intersection which has official traffic control signals that are inoperative shall stop at an intersection, and may proceed with caution when it is safe to do so."

It all hinges on if *ALL* functions are required for a signal to be "operative".  It appears that at least some judges are leaning that direction.  All that being said, I mostly just avoid signals I know don't pick me up.  Planning ahead for a right turn followed by a legal U-turn vs. sitting in a left turn lane and potentially throwing myself into a court case seems wisest. YMMV.

[NinjaBob]

I guess Louisiana will probably be one of the last to get one of these sensible laws.

[Shoop]

I don't know if this will work in all areas, but you might be able to get the highway dept. to recalibrate the sensor.

When I returned to riding this past year I learned that a light near my home would not detect the motorcycle. It is a low volume road so I just waited one minute then rode through. I only allowed one minute because when that light is working it is very quick to change. But it bugged me to be doing that so I googled the highway department and called one of the offices. They directed me to a different office for the engineer that handles the traffic signals. The guy was really nice and assured me they would recalibrate the inductance loop sensor. A week later it was fixed and working fine.

Chris

[Brick]

Shoop,
While not a highway department I tried this at The Ohio State University when I worked there. I had a Faculty sticker on my bike so I could park in the parking garages and had a key card. Once you inserted your card you had to move quickly because it didn't really detect a vehicle. Upon exiting it did NOT detect a vehicle and most times would not open to allow you out. I worked on them for over a year to get them to understand the problem and to just adjust the sensitivity. They did not get it. Actually had it come down between me and my passenger once. It was a good thing she was able to lay down on the back of the bike.
One day I found the gate broken off... it was a wooden gate... the next day it was reinstalled but they did not put a new gate they just cut the old one off so it was shorter. Now it was very easy to get past the gate. Knowing this was not really there plan to make it easier for us riders I still went and Thanked them for coming up with a brilliant way to solve the problem. That lasted for a while until the put a new gate bar on and well someone broke it off again. Can you imagine that!!
I believe these to be the same kind of sensors as traffic lights.

I don't know if this will work in all areas, but you might be able to get the highway dept. to recalibrate the sensor.

When I returned to riding this past year I learned that a light near my home would not detect the motorcycle. It is a low volume road so I just waited one minute then rode through. I only allowed one minute because when that light is working it is very quick to change. But it bugged me to be doing that so I googled the highway department and called one of the offices. They directed me to a different office for the engineer that handles the traffic signals. The guy was really nice and assured me they would recalibrate the inductance loop sensor. A week later it was fixed and working fine.

Chris

[DrTizz]

I wasn't riding while I was at tOSU (couldn't afford to on a grad student salary), but that sounds EXACTLY like the Traffic and Parking folks I remember so un-fondly!

[RIDEMYST]

Many years back I purchased a magnet to go under the bike that was advertised as being able to activate red light sensors.
Simply put, it did nothing!
I haven't seen them advertised lately but if they are still selling them I wouldn't waste your money. -JEP-

[Brick]

Jim, it most certainly did do something... it sucked that money right out of you!

Many years back I purchased a magnet to go under the bike that was advertised as being able to activate red light sensors.
Simply put, it did nothing!
I haven't seen them advertised lately but if they are still selling them I wouldn't waste your money. -JEP-

I might be out riding my Super Tenere'

[stevegrab]

I've got one like this near home that I hit on many rides ride since I return to my area via the same highway. Its at freeway offramp, where I make a left turn. If there is enough traffic I just move all the way to the front, and usually a car is there quickly. (It is a T-intersection so doesn't change otherwise.) I've run it more often when there is less traffic, or made the right and then U-turn in a parking lot entrance to avoid the hassle. About half the time I do that I end up getting caught at the light as I go back, its now changed

I really should try alerting the traffic engineer or highway department to see if anybody can do anything. But I loath dealing with the government bureaucracy.

While I agree that these (dead red) laws would be good to have everywhere, they still put the burden on the vehicle operator. You could still be cited for running a red light and found guilty. Since even places with these laws may ticket the rider when they proceed through the red light, that still means going to court (time off work for those still doing that) etc.  First and foremost to me is safety, sitting their stopped for a long time isn't so at some point I'll move. When I do I am careful and check for any traffic (don't want to freak somebody out proceeding while they have a green), and to make sure no LEO sees me.

Somehow I doubt they have these problems as much in Europe, if they use induction loops for traffic signals they probably set them up to work for motorcycles, since they're not second class citizens there.

[RichGrab]

Many years back I purchased a magnet to go under the bike that was advertised as being able to activate red light sensors.
Simply put, it did nothing!
I haven't seen them advertised lately but if they are still selling them I wouldn't waste your money. -JEP-

Jim - not sure how a magnet would work. I used to work for a company installing security gates at parking structure. What those loops in the ground do (from my understanding) is set up a magnetic field which then is triggered by the metal in the vehicle.

Shoop,
While not a highway department I tried this at The Ohio State University when I worked there. I had a Faculty sticker on my bike so I could park in the parking garages and had a key card. Once you inserted your card you had to move quickly because it didn't really detect a vehicle. Upon exiting it did NOT detect a vehicle and most times would not open to allow you out. I worked on them for over a year to get them to understand the problem and to just adjust the sensitivity. They did not get it. Actually had it come down between me and my passenger once. It was a good thing she was able to lay down on the back of the bike.
One day I found the gate broken off... it was a wooden gate... the next day it was reinstalled but they did not put a new gate they just cut the old one off so it was shorter. Now it was very easy to get past the gate. Knowing this was not really there plan to make it easier for us riders I still went and Thanked them for coming up with a brilliant way to solve the problem. That lasted for a while until the put a new gate bar on and well someone broke it off again. Can you imagine that!!
I believe these to be the same kind of sensors as traffic lights.

I don't know if this will work in all areas, but you might be able to get the highway dept. to recalibrate the sensor.

When I returned to riding this past year I learned that a light near my home would not detect the motorcycle. It is a low volume road so I just waited one minute then rode through. I only allowed one minute because when that light is working it is very quick to change. But it bugged me to be doing that so I googled the highway department and called one of the offices. They directed me to a different office for the engineer that handles the traffic signals. The guy was really nice and assured me they would recalibrate the inductance loop sensor. A week later it was fixed and working fine.

Chris

Chris and Brick - When I used to install these kind of loop detectors for parking lot gates and arms, we used to use our removable tray from out toolbox and slide it over the loop laid in the ground. We would adjust till if sliding it over no detection, and then dial up just a little. That way, even a kid riding a bicycle would be able to ride over the loop and either open the gate (from indoors) or prevent it from crashing down on their head while riding in.

[normkern]

This has been on the forum before. The loop detector is a transformer. Your vehicle is the iron core that increases coupling between the coils & trips the detector. Your motorcycle may not contain enough iron to trip the detector. Your best chance to trip the detector is to stop with your crankcase over the area where the loop wires cross your lane. It that fails to trip it, here's how to take care of the problem:

Step 1: Cover your ass. Send an email to the police & traffic dept in the jurisdiction to notify them of the problem & put them on notice.

Step 2: They will probably take you up on your offer of help to adjust the loop detector, so give them a hand. Problem solved.

BTW, send the email with a read receipt. If you get cited, you take copies of the email and read receipt to court and show that you reported the problem and you are trying to compy with the law. VERY unlikely a judge would convict you under these circumstances.

Sample letter:

Subject: Malfunctioning Traffic Control Signal Light at I675 exit 4A and Alex-Bell Pike

To Traffic Department and Sheriff's Department:

I wish to report a problem with the above traffic signal.

I live on Grants Trail and routinely exit northbound at5 exit 4a of I-675. At the traffic signal I must turn left to go west on Alex-Bell to reach my home.

When I am riding my Honda ST1300 motorcycle, I cannot trip the sensor that activates the traffic signal. If no automobile comes up behind me, I can sit there for five minutes and not get a green light.

The other day when there was no vehicle behind me, a car pulled up to make a left turn on the opposite side of the intersection. Within fifteen seconds, the lights on Alex-Bell turned red and the lights for the car across the intersection turned green, BUT THE LIGHT FOR ME REMAINED RED.

Please be advised that this traffic control signal light is malfunctioning for motorcycles.

If you wish to adjust the sensitivity of the loop detector, I would be glad to test it for you. Feel free to call me at 937-428-0962.

Until then, I am following the procedure stated in section 4511.132 Operation at intersections with malfunctioning traffic control signal lights.

Jack Norman Kern
417 Grants Trail
Dayton, Ohio 45459

[Brick]

Great stuff Richard and Norm!
Thanks!