MSTA Forums
Main Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Patmo on June 26, 2022, 06:16:27 PM
-
A very simple question……
What are things that we could do to improve STAR?
-
38 views and no replies suggests yall are doing a great job and I agree! The only thing I can think of is the routes, the 4 street routes I rode had gravel. Pre-riding the routes is always good but I understand that is not always possible. What our group does when planning routes is to street view them with Google maps or Google earth. I suggest we do that when pre riding is not possible. And Yes, I volunteer to do this if given the routes early enough! It is a slow process for me as my satelite connection is not very fast. Anybody else want to help?
-
We had a list of things for non-rider family members to do at STAR in LaCrosse. This would be good to do for future STAR's. That way it not only brings the non-rider family member to STAR, but also brings a rider that may stay home, being he/she does not want to spend about a week of vacation time without the spouse non-rider. That non-rider may not want or allow the rider to spend that much vacation time while they have to stay home.
But, then some non-riders like to be home by themselves so that their Boyfriend can come over as we heard at the banquet on the phone call. LOL
As was discussed at STAR this year, we really need to think about moving it to September which is hopefully cooler weather. When it was announced at Colorado Springs that STAR would be in LaCrosse the following year, I was concerned, as that time of year in the LaCrosse area can be hot and humid in the valley near the river. We lucked out and it was very nice weather.
-
IMHO STAR needs to stay in June if you want attract a younger crowd of working folks. Us retired folks need to suck it up! Over the years the weather in June works in our favorite more times than not. A straw poll completed at the end of some very hot riding days is not reason enough to go away from the best weather of the year across the country.
Only improvement that comes to my mind is get back to a raffle bike ASAP even it is a smaller bike. (650cc or less)
-
The BIG question is, why was the attendance at the 2022 STAR about 30% less than each of the past 5 years?
And, what does it take to get back to those numbers?
Maybe a message should be sent to those that have attended the past STAR's to bring the totals to the 300 range and ask why they did not attend this year.
LaCrosse had 290 attendees and 49 first timers. Did these first timers attend any other STAR's after that STAR, if not, why? That might be a good place to start.
-
I agree with Bill that June, in summer is a better time for any sort of riding event. Later in the year weather is less predictable. There are a few places we should not go in June, one is Texas, and when STAR was there last time the event was held in April. There were some people not happy about that, but it was necessary.
As for the lower attendance this past year compared to prior ones, was it much lower than Canaan Valley, or are we comparing the the events before 2020? Last year I was itching to do something and planned to do STAR once I heard it was on. In 2020 I had planned to go to Cape Girardeau, and then when it got rescheduled I decided to do something else. (My brother and I had been trying to get to Deal's Gap area for years, kept being derailed and decided 2022 was the year, and we'd skip STAR. Had I know STAR would be in Knoxville the following year (I thought it was headed out west for some reason) I might have come.
I heard attendance from our corner of the world (Northeast Ohio) was very low, where if its within a day or two ride we usually have a 6-10 or more.
Some people just don't want to do things, we saw that at our work conference this year which was a hybrid in-person virtual after 2 years full virtual. But those who came enjoyed and we committed to doing hybrid again, instead of virtual only. But we still have no idea how many will come, will it be closer to the numbers before 2020? Or more like this year, or somewhere between? Dealing with similar things at church, if we plan something how many do we expect, considering we've had fewer events and attendance for services is also way down.
-
2014 Rapid City SD Holiday Inn Rushmore Plaza 273
2015 Springdale AR Holiday Inn Springdale ?
2016 Stratton Mountain VT Big Bear Lodge 265
2017 Colorado Springs CO Hotel Elegante 315
2018 La Crosse WI Radisson La Crosse 290
2019 Bristol VA Holiday Inn Bristol 317
2021 Davis WV New Canaan Valley Resort 375
Those are the numbers from the STAR HISTORICAL DATA on this forum.
I don't know how to decipher why the numbers are what they are, being CO was 315, and usually eastern is higher with more members. And then VT was only 265. My comments on June 28 would be a good place to start asking questions, but, will enough people respond to give some ideas? Who knows.
As they say, The Times are a Changing.
-
IMHO STAR needs to stay in June if you want attract a younger crowd of working folks.
As one of these younger and working folks (with young children), I agree. There's no way we would be able to attend during the school year.
Anecdotally, I heard a few that changed plans due to 100+ degree forecast. Thank God that didn't materialize. How does your registered/no-show rate look?
-
Our perception of the location is a probable driver. Except for Colorado Springs and Stratton Mountain, eastern locations appear to be doing better. I was at Springdale, but my schedule hasn't cooperated since.
-
Move STAR to a cooler time of the year!
I'm reading through the comments here and I just scratch my head.
"Keep STAR in June to attract younger members."
Really? We've had ONE Star that wasn't in June (2008 Kerrville, TX) and nearly all Star's have been in June. Where are these younger members we are attracting? I think we've tested those waters, guys! Go to any major rally with 100K+ in attendance (Bike Week, Sturgis) and look around. If you're in your 50's you will be a youngster! I believe our average member's age is 60+... sad but true.
"June has more predictable weather."
I agree....it's gonna be HOT!
I rode through Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky and of course Missouri to get to this year's Star and yes the weather was predictable as I rode in 102 degree temperatures En route!
Consider this, after Labor Day the kids are back in school, you aren't stuck behind that minivan with Mom & Dad and the kids and dog on those great twistie roads!
Our focus needs to be on satisfying our existing Star attendee's and riding in triple digit temperatures in not my idea of fun.
It's time for a change, IMHO. -JEP-
-
IMHO STAR needs to stay in June if you want attract a younger crowd of working folks.
As one of these younger and working folks (with young children), I agree. There's no way we would be able to attend during the school year.
Anecdotally, I heard a few that changed plans due to 100+ degree forecast. Thank God that didn't materialize. How does your registered/no-show rate look?
That’s a good question….I’ll check and see if we can get an answer, and post up.
-
Well put Jim, thank you.
-
Move STAR to a cooler time of the year!
I'm reading through the comments here and I just scratch my head.
"Keep STAR in June to attract younger members."
Really? We've had ONE Star that wasn't in June (2008 Kerrville, TX) and nearly all Star's have been in June. Where are these younger members we are attracting? I think we've tested those waters, guys! Go to any major rally with 100K+ in attendance (Bike Week, Sturgis) and look around. If you're in your 50's you will be a youngster! I believe our average member's age is 60+... sad but true.
"June has more predictable weather."
I agree....it's gonna be HOT!
I rode through Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky and of course Missouri to get to this year's Star and yes the weather was predictable as I rode in 102 degree temperatures En route!
Consider this, after Labor Day the kids are back in school, you aren't stuck behind that minivan with Mom & Dad and the kids and dog on those great twistie roads!
Our focus needs to be on satisfying our existing Star attendee's and riding in triple digit temperatures in not my idea of fun.
It's time for a change, IMHO. -JEP-
I agree 100%, Jim.
-
I don't think June's reason should be tied to encouraging young people with kids to attend, they really are not a large part of our club and may not be able to attend a bigger event like STAR no matter when it is held. Would they bring the whole family, or just the parents, or maybe just the rider (no passenger).
But June has been our traditional month, yes it is hot, but that is all relative. Florida and other parts of the deep south are worse than the midwest. And the dry heat of the southwest is different from the humid conditions other areas have. I personally thing July and August are hotter than June, the MPFB event in late August is often really hot.
Having STAR after Labor Day so we have "the roads to ourselves" also means dealing with more variations in weather, including rain and severe storms. Maybe that's a trade-off some are willing to make.
-
Let's begin by admitting to ourselves that there is no one perfect solution. Nothing that will work for everyone in every situation. Once we all admit that we can begin to look for something that will work for the most people in the most situations.
ONE BIG PROBLEM with moving STAR after all these years of it being in June, is what happens to the rallies that are already scheduled every year in September-October?
Do we ask them to move their dates?
Do we ask them to suspend the rally for a year?
Can we somehow COMBINE those rallies with STAR for a year?
Right now, the club BYLAWS say that a REGIONAL STAR cannot be held within 21-days of the NATIONAL STAR. If the purpose of having the rule regarding the 21-day period was to keep local events from competing with STAR and possibly draining attendance away from STAR, I don't think it's working.
If we follow that rule, it basically says that over a 7-week period (3 weeks before-1 week for STAR-3 weeks after) we only have ONE event for our members. Only ONE event over a 7-week period in what is commonly looked at as the heart of riding season across much of the country. ONE event that only 25-30% of our members attend in any given year. THAT GOES AGAINST EXACTLY WHAT THE CLUB PURPOSE IS. It doesn't give members more opportunity to participate in club activities, it reduces it! If they can't make the dates of a STAR, or it's too far away for them to attend, they are out of luck for that whole 7-week period. Sorry Charlie! Find something else to do...and they do.
So, the FIRST thing I would say is to CHANGE that rule. It's not working, and it actually hinders our rally coordinators by making it taboo to hold a local rally anywhere in the country from Memorial Day weekend through mid-July. It is my belief that DISTANCE proximity is much more important than TIME proximity. We probably wouldn't want to have a STAR within a few weeks of another rally, that is in the same area of the country. right? But if a STAR is, is say 500 miles, away from a local rally, and is a week later, is that going to be a big problem? I don't think so. Not for most people anyway. Some people, yes. Most people, no. We need to change the rule to take distance into account. I will discuss that with the rest of the EC and see what we can come up with. Changing that rule would certainly open up more weekends in which we could have local rallies going on, and to my mind that is a good thing. it would also open up more weeks in which we could have STAR. Also, a good thing!
Let's look at WHERE our already scheduled September-October "regional" rallies are held...
September:
Ozarks Bull Shoals in Thedosia, Missouri
Fall Colors in Lewisburg, WV
October:
ByWay Boogie in Clarksville, Arkansas
Texas Hill Country in Kerrville, Texas
1ST OFF....would it be possible for us to combine any of these regional rallies for a year with the NATIONAL rally? To have them combined to make it a FULL WEEKLONG rally? Or to have the National rally REPLACE the regional for a year?
I think that could easily happen in some cases.
Could we make the Texas Hill Country rally STAR for a year? We had a STAR there once before but held it in April. Could it become a week-long autumn event for a year? Sun-Sat? Sat-Sun? M-F? (with weekends free to travel to and from)
Could we do the same for any of the other rallies we hold in the Autumn? With a little flexibility regarding locations, I think it is very doable. Perhaps one of the autumn rallies would need to change its time for a year and become a summer rally for a year. Would that really cause a big problem? Keep in mind that if we move STAR from June to Autumn, that opens up a long period of time in which we could move what is now an autumn rally to summer. That might give them more flexibility in regard to dates that are open at the host hotels.
OR>>>>
2NDLY....do we just say that we keep the regional/local rallies where and when they are, and just make sure that the STAR isn't the same weekend? AND isn't in the same area of the country?
Would a STAR held in mid-October in West Virginia/Pennsylvania/North Carolina, etc. cause an undue hardship to rallies held in Arkansas and Texas?
Would a STAR held in Colorado in mid-September cause an undue hardship to rallies held in Missouri and West Virginia?
Would those local rallies suck large numbers of attendees away from STAR?
I think for the vast majority of people, the answer is no. Some people would have to make an either-or decision, but not everyone for sure. And people are already making that decision, aren't they? I know that I don't have the time or money to attend every rally. I already have to figure out which ones I can attend and which ones I have to skip. I'm pretty sure that everyone else is also in this position. Changing STAR timing/location wouldn't change that. But in some cases, people may actually COMBINE trips and do a regional rally and a STAR together. (We saw some of that last year when the BMWMOA rally fell just before the STAR rally, with them being in the same state. Some people combined the two rallies into a week-long motorcycle trip.) As much as it might cause some people to choose between two separate events, it might allow others to combine them and give them even more reason to attend.
Once again....there is no ONE PERFECT solution that will work for EVERYONE. But I do think that if we give ourselves more flexibility, we might be able to come up with a solution that works for MORE people than what we have right now.
-
It looks like you have given this a lot of thought, Pat.
This year’s STAR we had a little over 200 in attendance. While this STAR and most past STAR events get excellent reviews by those that attend, there must be a reason why the other 80% of our members are not going. I’m certain there are many reasons why we don’t get a higher member turnout but perhaps it could be the time of year?
Didn’t Einstein have a saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? -JEP-
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
When I first joined the HSTA in 1993 and got to know members from all over the USA, I was surprised to learn from some of our Texas members that our prime riding season in the Midwest, summer, was a time when they rode very little due to the heat. Well, over the years, it looks like we are experiencing the same in our part of the country. My street bike and dual sport bike have gotten very little use this summer, as I have found that riding all day in 90+ degree heat is not something that I enjoy.
We had over 20 last minute cancellations at the STAR hotel this year, due to the weather forecast, so that accounted for about 40 less attendees. While daily weather can change, the overall trend is toward warmer summers. It appears that many aspects of our lives will have to adapt if we want them to continue.
It's a good thing that climate change is a hoax, or else it would be really hot. :-)
-
While this STAR and most past STAR events get excellent reviews by those that attend, there must be a reason why the other 80% of our members are not going.
I just gave a why-not response in the why-not thread, if that helps.
-
In reference to part of Pat's comments about other events. In 2020 when STAR was changed to September, I suggested for riders to head to Bull Shoals Rally, after STAR, and two days later, which was about 230 miles west of Cape G. at Theodosia, MO. Not that it was the most perfect option, but it was an option for those riders that had the time, and had never been to that part of the country.
As it turned out, STAR 2020 was canceled, so we do not know how many would have gone to both rallies.
I think it is very hard to have a perfect situation, but we need to look at what most of the members prefer, especially those that attend rallies, STAR and Just For Fun.
At this years STAR, it was asked for a show of hands for age groups. It looked like the big majority was 60+ years old. It seems to me that many years ago, I read in SR that the average age of the club member was 57 years old. And it also stated that the average is rising every year.
Here is the big question, how do we get the younger generation, that have children at home yet, to join MSTA and attend rallies??
If I think of ourselves, being a member since 2003, and attended our first STAR in 2015 at Springdale, AR. All those years we did not know what we were missing until we attended the first STAR. We also were too busy to attend as I always had a conflict also. Now we make changes so that we don't have conflicts and can go to STAR and enjoy that Fantastic Rally and Friends!
-
I'm with ya Patmo. We don't HAVE to but OUGHT to try something. There are many factors that make the decision on going to STAR or not in a given year. Many of them from OUTSIDE the club and bikin' world. We changed the name of the club didn't we?, with the intention of the better good. We didn't change the spirit of the whole thing, just the perception and attitude from the outside.
A change of dates might not happen because of other bookings at given places, locations, hotels and we end up near the same old date. But ya gotta give it a shot. I say change the bylaw, try to change the date for a year and see what we can do. Be open people!! That is all. TM