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Just For Fun Ride Reports / Re: Pacific Northwest trip
« Last post by tunerider335 on September 28, 2023, 08:02:58 AM »
Great ride report Bob!  Good to relive these epic adventures again!
On the way home….  The largest ball of twine….

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
General Discussion / Re: Help Geoffrey Greene with his medical expenses
« Last post by NinjaBob on September 26, 2023, 06:05:34 PM »
Done. Get well soon Geoffrey
Just For Fun Ride Reports / Re: Pacific Northwest trip
« Last post by NinjaBob on September 26, 2023, 06:03:31 PM »
Time to wrap this story up.
On Wednesday the 23rd we rode 363 miles south through western South Dakota and to Chadron, Nebraska. Our route took us through the Black Hills and through Deadwood and Custer on US 385 which took us all the way to Chadron. This would be the last night for the four of us together. We had a nice meal at Helen's pancake and Steak House.

Thursday would be a 413 mile ride for three of us through Nebraska to Phillipsburg, Kansas on NE 250 and 2 and US 83 to Oberlin, Kansas where three of us turned east on US 36. Kevin continued south on US 83 on his way back to Amarillo to pick up his  truck and trailer.

The Cottonwood Inn in Phillipsburg proved to be a real dump, which was surprising since the Cottonwood Inn in Glasgow was super nice. However the Sand Trap Bar and Grill turned out to be a very friendly place and the food was fine.

For Friday Tony and Scott had a nearly 500 mile day to Scott's place in Kansas, OK and they left way before dawn to beat the heat. I had a much shorter day, 253 miles to my son's place in Wichita and waited for daylight to hit the road.  The short ride to Wichita was pleasant. I spent Friday night and Saturday hanging out with my son and his family. We had a great visit and I headed home on Sunday,  a trip I've made many times, stopping half way in Paris, Texas arriving home on Monday, 6071 miles in 18 days.

It was a great trip!  Happy Trails with great friends. I was quite pleased with the performance of my new Yamaha Tracer 9 GT. I had been worried about downgrading from a shaft drive bike to a chain but my Tutoro auto oiler worked as advertised and no slack adjustments were required.

Below are links to Google maps from our track log, broken into two parts due to size limit in Google Maps.

Part 1

Part 2
General Discussion / Re: Why did you participate in rider training
« Last post by NinjaBob on September 26, 2023, 05:59:26 PM »
I disagree with the countersteering concept. To me we are not pushing the bar in the counter direction but pushing the bike DOWN in the direction it needs to lean. Don't get me wrong, I am doing what you all call contersteering I just think it is a wrong way to describe it. I absorbed Nick Iesnasch (sp?)cornering techniques  and feel I learned to use them well after many track days and use them on the street. As for courses I've taken MSF, WERA track safety course required for race license, a racing course by a WERA racing friend at my local track and the Sport Touring track day school at Jennings GP sponsored by MSTA and GOG a few years back. I use to practice threshold breaking and used to be good at it. But now with three bikes with ABS that all work slightly different and getting old I am just relying more on the electronics.
General Discussion / Re: Why did you participate in rider training
« Last post by HawkGTRider on September 26, 2023, 09:02:07 AM »
I've heard some say that countersteering only occurs at speeds above a particular threshold. I've even heard some MSF RiderCoaches say something to that effect, but you won't find that in any of MSF's written materials (one of our local guys used to say it only worked above 8 mph.). For me, I'm more of the opinion that unless you are traveling at a speed so slow that other actions may have a greater effect, countersteering is the only way to quickly change your direction. At normal highway speeds, shifting your body weight will alter your direction some, but not very accurately nor quickly. Shifting body weight seems to have more of an effect at slow speeds, but it's not very fast, not very accurate, and with little control. Even turning your head will have a small effect, but it's not effective.

People who say they don't countersteer must have a different definition of what it is, or they DO countersteer.

RE: ABS...
If you watch the above referenced video, you'll see that when the wheels reach a point when they are turning at different speeds (just before a wheel locks up...which may lead to a loss of control), the electronics activate some change to try to avoid that happening. It's a lot more about having consistent control than it is about stopping faster or slower.
General Discussion / Help Geoffrey Greene with his medical expenses
« Last post by Patmo on September 25, 2023, 07:42:33 PM »
As many of you know, Geoffrey Greene was involved in a very serious motorcycle accident while at the Big Lynn Lodge event.  He was hit from behind while coming to a stop and suffered massive injuries, especially to his pelvis.  He has been unable to walk or work for some time and may never be able to return to work. His medical bills continue to rise and the person that hit him appears to have very limited insurance coverage.  He needs OUR HELP!  We have organized a Gofundme account to raise money to cover some of his expenses.  Please donate if you can and please, even if you can’t donate, share this with everyone you know!  Here’s the link:
General Discussion / Re: Why did you participate in rider training
« Last post by stevegrab on September 25, 2023, 01:08:20 PM »
I don't keep my training up like I should, but I was surprised years ago when I took the basic MSF course and talked to other experienced riders about counter steering. Some claimed they didn't do it, and that it wasn't a key part of riding. One rider even got onto a bike in a riding position (semi tuck on sport bike) and I asked them to simulate a turn, and they talked about how they leaned and hung off the bike. Look at your arms I said, didn't you just push forward with your hand on the insde bar?

I think it is Keith Code or one of the others that has a bike that teaches this somehow, forget the priniciple. For me the MSF course demonstration was done with a large bicycle wheel that had pegs on the sides. Instructor spun the wheel and told a student to "turn left" and we asll saw the wheel move a bit to the left, then rotate back and dip in hard to the right.

If I had a bike with ABS I'd like rely on it, just like I do in the car. Maybe I could do better, with the proper conditions and practice.
General Discussion / Re: Why did you participate in rider training
« Last post by STLTHMSTA on September 24, 2023, 10:06:12 AM »
Well Geoffrey, this is almost like opening a oil thread.  LOL ;^)   I agree you CAN stop shorter with a non-abs bike but that is under optimum conditions and planning ahead to do so. ABS is designed to do it's thing under less than good conditions. What about a surprise?? How many times have we had a knee jerk reaction and screwed up our reaction to the situation? The science and dynamics is more than we'll discuss here but if you can prevent locking and tucking the front wheel, which IS GOING to make you fall down, asb is there to prevent that.
I understand your frustration with that class as it was taught without FULL explanation of the inner workings of the brakes, pros and cons.  YM
General Discussion / Re: Why did you participate in rider training
« Last post by HawkGTRider on September 23, 2023, 07:02:10 PM »
Over the last 25 years in our MSF Classes, I'm guilty of having stated more than once that with good practice, we could out-stop an ABS equipped bike. The explanations I'd heard were generally somewhat complicated and convoluted. But it made enough sense to me that I still believed it enough to repeat the claim. I'm not sure I could clearly explain it, but I believed it.
Our friends at FortNine have done a better-than-average video comparing what happens when you depend solely on ABS electronics vs using your well practiced skill set. I'm happy to say that that they are backing up the claims I've made for all of those many years. With good practice, you CAN often stop more quickly than you will by just trusting an ABS system. It won't happen without practice, and the electronics will save your behind on occasion when you aren't at your best, but with some practice you CAN be better.
Watch this video more than once and see what YOU think. Be ready to pause the video to read the captions and think about what they are saying.

I attended a civilian version of the Midwest Motorcycle Training School in Auburn Hillls, Michigan a few years ago. They cater primarily to training motor officers, and motor officers are some of the very best riders around...they know their stuff. But the instructors for this class got to a stopping exercise on day 3 of 4 when we were instructed to just slam on the brakes and let the electronics stop us. I specifically asked the lead instructor if our goal was to stop as quickly as possible without having the ABS kick in and his response was "Why would you do that? Just apply maximum brake pressure and let the electronics do what they were designed to do." The problem for me now and then was my belief that ABS is designed to keep you from locking up a tire (leading to a loss of control)...not necessarily to stop in the shortest distance you and the bike are capable of doing. That, along with another discussion about swerving where the head instructor refused to even try to explain the difference between pushing the bar vs pressing the bar (I specifically asked when he said I was doing one of them but he wanted the other) led me to leave part of the way through day 3 and accept "in my mind" that the training I was getting was not nearly worth what I had paid for the tuition to the class. I got 3 days of inadequate and half-ass training for 4 days tuition plus paid for  5 nights at a motel, meals, etc. Very disappointing.
Geoffrey Greene
Texas / Texas Hill Country Ride 2023
« Last post by rc51michael on September 23, 2023, 01:31:24 PM »
Just over a month away.  Get your shirt orders in, cutoff for shirt sales is early October.  Hope to see everyone there and hopefully cooler weather too😎
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