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Ride Reports => MSTA Sanctioned Event Reports => Topic started by: touringman on August 31, 2015, 01:11:46 PM

Title: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on August 31, 2015, 01:11:46 PM
Hello everyone, We are getting close, and I want to encourage everyone to book your room asap. As of this morning our block of 35 rooms for Thursday is sold out. This has never happened before! There are 11 rooms left for Friday, and 6 left for Saturday. I am contacting the other hotels behind the QI to attempt to block 10 more rooms for all three nights, and I'll let you know how that turns out. Please bring and wear your MSTA name tag. The other group will also have name tags, and conversation will be much easier that way. A few have let me know that they will join us at Del Sol for dinner Thursday night, but far fewer than the 35 I made reservations for. The same thing happened last year, and we ended up with extra people that were forced to sit elsewhere. Letting me know if you are coming will alleviate some of the problem, but still won't guarantee a seat for you, because seating will be on a first come - first served basis. The best way to assure that you'll be with the main group is to let me know, and be there early. Reservations are at 6:30. Thanks, and I'm looking forward to seeing you there! Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RichGrab on August 31, 2015, 04:48:53 PM
Looking forward to my first FCR with my brother Steve. Glad I reserved us a room on Saturday, as had I waited till Monday, I'd have clearly been out of luck. Looking forward to meeting you Syd, and enjoying once again) the fine roads of the area.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on August 31, 2015, 05:17:11 PM
Syd,

I'm a bit confused, your block of rooms for MSTA members is full on Thursday, but some openings on Fri/Sat? So some people are going to be there only Thursday, but not Fri/Sat?  Or did you have 35 rooms Thursday, and more Fri/Sat ??

PS  Yes glad my brother booked a room.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on August 31, 2015, 08:37:58 PM
You are correct Steve that I made a block of 35 rooms for Thursday, and 45 rooms each for Friday and Saturday. It seems there is a larger number coming in early for Thursday, as well as an inproportionate number that are skipping Fri., and coming in Sat. This has never been a problem before, but due to the equally large block of rooms for the FJR group, there is absolutely no flexibility for late bookings. I spoke with group sales manager, Matt, at the Hampton Inn directly behind the QI this afternoon. He allowed us to hold 5 rooms until Sept. 18th for the MSTA. Two of those are two Queens, and three single kings. It's a very nice hotel but these rooms run $130 per night, reduced from $145. The rooms are under "sporttouring" if you wish to grab one. I also have calls in for the Fairfield and Holiday Inn, and will announce what I come up with. All will be higher than the QI. Sorry for any inconvenience, but I'm doing all I can. :P Thanks, Syd :)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on August 31, 2015, 09:36:39 PM
Just booked a room with a king for Friday and Saturday. Looking towards my first FCR. Larry aka Wardie
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on August 31, 2015, 10:19:34 PM
Glad you got it booked Wardie!! See you there. Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: DirtFlier on September 01, 2015, 05:06:40 AM
[So some people are going to be there only Thursday, but not Fri/Sat?]

Syd has a group dinner on Thursday at a Mexican joint in town.  Last year we were too late so missed it but will plan to make it this year! 

Many (most?) people will be there Thursday afternoon and depart on Sunday morning.  :-)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on September 01, 2015, 02:20:28 PM
Hold the busses!! I just talked with Jo McMahan, who generally handles things for me at the QI. One of assistants told me yesterday that we had no more rooms available for Thursday. He evidently had no idea what he was talking about, because Jo says we do have rooms for Thursday. Please call asap, and nail down your rooms. Please call between 8am and 3pm, and ask for Jo McMahan, if you want to make sure your reservation is handled properly. I have also reserved five rooms until the 18th at the Hampton Inn, directly behind the QI. There are two queen rooms with two beds, and three king rooms.The cost is $130, reduced from $145. We are getting a deal at the QI! Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: DirtFlier on September 01, 2015, 05:34:15 PM
Boy, you sure know how to sweet talk the women!   ;)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on September 01, 2015, 11:04:53 PM
Try to tell that to my wife Tosh! :(
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on September 02, 2015, 01:42:48 PM
Try to tell that to my wife Tosh! :(

Bring her to Lewisburg and we'll all sing your praises to her :)

Hopefully they straightened out the other staff members giving false info, not everybody will see the info here or be able to call at some specific time. Amazed that with hotel systems being computerized that somehow a person at the desk can still get things wrong.

My brother had no problems and said he talked to a friendly lady named Pam when he called.

Here's to hoping it is a little warmer this year, I think it was below 40 both Saturday and Sunday mornings (recall frost on my top case, and a chilly first hour drone down I-64 west at below the speed limit to avoid freezing).


Let us know if you did more about the distillery tour, if we need to sign up in advance or will that be done at registration.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RichGrab on September 03, 2015, 10:09:42 PM
Try to tell that to my wife Tosh! :(


Here's to hoping it is a little warmer this year, I think it was below 40 both Saturday and Sunday mornings (recall frost on my top case, and a chilly first hour drone down I-64 west at below the speed limit to avoid freezing).


Let us know if you did more about the distillery tour, if we need to sign up in advance or will that be done at registration.

40 - I can handle that for a bit. Give me a chance to try out my new warm gloves and liners. No electric, hope it ain't much colder than that! 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: banjobart on September 04, 2015, 10:27:03 PM
When our West MI squad left on that frosty morning last year a pickup truck passed us once we got off west I-64 and started north on I-77. We followed him to Marietta at 90-95 MPH. I-77 is a fun road when riding fast. It was the Autobahn in WV! I have the urge to go faster when it is cold to get there sooner and return to warmth.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: qman8 on September 08, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
When our West MI squad left on that frosty morning last year a pickup truck passed us once we got off west I-64 and started north on I-77. We followed him to Marietta at 90-95 MPH. I-77 is a fun road when riding fast. It was the Autobahn in WV! I have the urge to go faster when it is cold to get there sooner and return to warmth.
We had sleet last year just north of Lewisburg on Saturday!  That was fun!  Very glad I had Gerbing liner and gloves!!!  Not sure how I survived before I bought that stuff!!!
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RichGrab on September 08, 2015, 11:21:58 AM
When our West MI squad left on that frosty morning last year a pickup truck passed us once we got off west I-64 and started north on I-77. We followed him to Marietta at 90-95 MPH. I-77 is a fun road when riding fast. It was the Autobahn in WV! I have the urge to go faster when it is cold to get there sooner and return to warmth.
We had sleet last year just north of Lewisburg on Saturday!  That was fun!  Very glad I had Gerbing liner and gloves!!!  Not sure how I survived before I bought that stuff!!!

You can only get so cold. I had to ride once in October in Salt Lake City (luckily my bike was at my girlfriends house, came out after dinner at here place to find car with a flat and no spare) so rode home about 15 miles or so on I-80. When I got home, I took a hot shower, and wrapped myself in a blanket sitting under the heater vent. Took about an hour to get my temperature back up. And I only had a leather jacket, helmet, gloves and jeans (all my other gear was at my house). I'm hoping for the best, planning for the worst and that way I'll be prepared for most anything. And if it snows, oh well guess I'll have to take another day off work. :)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on September 08, 2015, 02:23:47 PM
Neither sleet nor rain nor snow, cold temperatures or frost on our seat will stop us from departing Lewisburg for NE Ohio on Sunday morning ;)

Really its only cold for a few hours, before the sun starts to do its work. Of course if its raining that's a different story. Plan to have some 12 year old CC in my flask to help warm us up in the evenings.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RichGrab on September 08, 2015, 04:32:24 PM
Yay, 12 year old CC. That'll warm the innards after a cold day in the saddle.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on September 11, 2015, 09:01:30 AM
Hey Steve, quite frankly I'm tired of getting on the bike at 7am when it's 37 degrees and a slight misting to head back from Daytona. Since this is a shorter distance back to Ohio  I think I'll give Del Sol some time to do it's magic. But (there's always a but) I may stop by now that I know you have some CC available :) :)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on September 28, 2015, 07:19:54 AM
Even though it rained throughout the weekend the roads in and around Lewisburg were awesome. Thanks to Syd for putting on a nice event looking forward to next years.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: qman8 on September 28, 2015, 04:03:54 PM
Even though it rained throughout the weekend the roads in and around Lewisburg were awesome. Thanks to Syd for putting on a nice event looking forward to next years.

Agreed!  Thanks Syd, and all the others that helped out!  We managed over 200 miles Saturday, partially dry.  It was an extremely bad timing for the weather to stall out right over our heads!  But hey, I'd rather ride in that than in 100+ degrees!  Quite a mixed crowd with the FJR club there. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Buckeye56 on September 28, 2015, 08:05:44 PM
I too want to add my thanks to Syd for putting on the event. We toured the National Radio Obsevratory Saturday so we only did about 140 miles. That is a cool spot to visit!
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on September 30, 2015, 06:50:43 PM
I too want to add my thanks to Syd for putting on the event. We toured the National Radio Obsevratory Saturday so we only did about 140 miles. That is a cool spot to visit!
My group did that the year we were at Snowshoe and it snowed. I had been by there many times and wondered what the place was like and how much closer we could get to the dishes. Of course after we got back we heard from others that the cold and damp weather was not as bad about 30 miles from the hotel. But it was a fun day anyway.

The ride home was just really long with a late start, required some slab but still had a great time on US60 and WV16 then some fun roads in Ohio closer to home.

At least it wasn't under 40 degrees. Now seeing the weather this weekend, the storms coming on shore in the east, I'm really glad the event moved up one week.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on September 30, 2015, 08:06:39 PM
Thanks Guys! I am really thankful that we had such a good turnout, in spite of the forecast. The attitudes remained positive throughout the weekend, and many students of meteorology (Norm) managed to navigate around the bulk of the rain. I am continually impressed by the resilience and adaptive mindsets of our members. I believe we will try the same weekend next year. Next year we'll cover the spectrum, starting on 9/30, and ending up on 10/02. Hey, that's got to be good luck, right?? Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: banjobart on September 30, 2015, 09:20:52 PM
Syd, Thanks for the advance notice, your 2016 FCR dates will not conflict with the Michigan MSTA monthly meetings.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 01, 2015, 03:31:19 PM
Thank you Bart! I look forward to seeing you then. Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Buckeye56 on October 01, 2015, 03:37:13 PM
My group did that the year we were at Snowshoe and it snowed. I had been by there many times and wondered what the place was like and how much closer we could get to the dishes. Of course after we got back we heard from others that the cold and damp weather was not as bad about 30 miles from the hotel. But it was a fun day anyway.

The ride home was just really long with a late start, required some slab but still had a great time on US60 and WV16 then some fun roads in Ohio closer to home.

At least it wasn't under 40 degrees. Now seeing the weather this weekend, the storms coming on shore in the east, I'm really glad the event moved up one week.
[/quote]

We heard you talking about doing that and that was were we got the idea. I looked around Saturday evening but did not see you. Thanks!
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 06, 2015, 08:04:27 AM
Buckeye 56 yes the weather north was much better. We visited the National Radio Telescope Observatory. I hadn't been there in years and my riding buddy had never been there. Still way cool after all these years. I would suggest to anyone visiting to take the tour .

Ended up taking US 250 to Route 2 in WVA finally crossing over into Steubenville and Route 7 for a nice scenic river ride to Route 11 where I wicked it up a little and arrived almost an hour late to my sons birthday. He's 39 so it wasn't a big deal but the grandkids were anxiously awaiting blowing out the candles and eating the cake. What kid doesn't like that? All in all a fun weekend, rode all day Saturday and it was on and off rain. I'm coming back down next year. If we get any decent weather those roads are awesome.

Wardie

PS I am running Pirelli Scorpion Trails and was surprised at how well they hooked up in the curves even when the temps were lower than I like for curve carvin'. They came on my CB 500 X and I'm pleased so far.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 07, 2015, 03:28:56 PM
HelloWardie, I'm so glad you could join us, and that you enjoyed yourself. Please do come back next year, and give the weather another shot. I didn't know you were riding a CB 500X. That's a bike that has piqued my interest, but I didn't know anyone that owned one. What is your assessment of the bike in terms of power, touring ability, luggage if any, etc. Thanks in advance, Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 08, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Syd after owning a variety of bikes from a Hayabusa, CBR900RR, Ninja's, BMW's and some others I must tell you the CB 500 X is a pleasure to own and ride. First it's a lot lighter , it's dual OHC fuel injected and plenty of power. Avg. gas mileage was 67 mpg!! I can ride at 80 all day. Wide handlebars means I can counter steer very well. Bigger platform means I can carry a fair amount of stuff. Mounted Honda top rack and my trusty JC Whitney Givi look alike 32 liter top case. I have Bags Connection soft sided Blaze saddle bags that are specifically designed for my bike. They have a stainless support rod holding the bag away from the wheel and when not in use I simply push a button and the rod comes off only leaving a small snap into piece bolted to my foot peg.

Excellent bike for carvin WVA rodes. I had to laugh someone at your rally actually asked me if I could keep up with their big bikes because I had only a 500 :) It's not a liter bike with the ability to bend time and distance but in the curves at WVA where there aren't many long straightaways it will give as good account of itself as the rider is capable. Honestly after high siding in a race at Pittsburgh International Raceway this year (I'm 64) my wife said I was through racing so I sold my race bike and moved on, but  this little Honda puts a smile on my face because it will allow me to  lean it all the way over till I fall off. Ha,ha My buddy rode his as well. Mine is a 2014 and his is a 2013. Adventure  bike styling, Honda fit, finish and reliability. Should I ever need anything I'm only a day or two away from getting the part anywhere. Now if I needed a 150 mph bike I'd have to look elsewhere but other than that this is a great naked all arounder.

I'll let you ride Whitey next time I see you and you can decide what you think. IMO you don't need a BMW, Concours or FJR to do Coast to Coast touring. They are several middleweights that can get the job done like the new Yamaha's and Hondas.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 09, 2015, 07:06:17 AM
Wardie,

We met at the Fall Colors event on Friday night. You wanted to join our riding group on Saturday and I turned you down. I sensed you were offended. It was not my intention to be stand-offish or to exclude you, per se.

I attend lots of rallies and have a regular group of friends who I lead rides for. Not all of them attend every rally, but most of them were there for this one. The more riders in the group, the harder it becomes to keep track of people, pass slower traffic, stay together going through towns, etc. And that's with regulars who know how everyone else in the group rides and know my picky little riding rules.

I already had five other people in my group for Saturday.  The larger the group, the more stressful it is for me.  Adding two additional riders, both new to the group, was more than I was able to do. You asked if you could "shadow" us. I am frequently asked that question, and my experience is that in practice, it's just more riders on the back end of the group. I hope you understand. In any case it turned out to be a moot point, since it rained Saturday and we didn't ride. (The only rally day of this season I left my bike parked all day.)

There are a few events I attend each season where my regular group doesn't attend. I'm happy to ride with new people and new members at those events.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 09, 2015, 12:21:57 PM
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Wardie. In many ways, your description coincides with my experience in riding my DL 650. It isn't a power house, but I seldom have a problem keeping up with more powerful bikes in the twisties.I attribute that to ground clearance and weight, as well as the real world performance of the engine. I say real world, because there is the necessary balance between the geometry of the bike when mated with the engine. The Vstrom focuses its power and torque together to provide excellent performance through the range of the type of riding I enjoy, and I assume you may be saying the same about the CB500X. I researched your choice of luggage, and found that to be very appealing also. I have several Givi Monokey bags to choose from as a top case, and the soft bags with an internal waterproof liner should work well. For around $600 the bike could be outfitted with good touring luggage. My Vstrom has a strong appeal for me, but I'll continue to scout out the CB500X. A beg factor is that it's 50 lbs. lighter tan the Vstrom, which is no porker. Thanks again, Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 12, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
Wardie,

 



"I already had five other people in my group for Saturday.  The larger the group, the more stressful it is for me.  Adding two additional riders, both new to the group, was more than I was able to do."

Norm Kern

Norm,



I like your sense of also keeping safety at a premium and I completely understood your rationale. No harm, no foul looking forward to bending some curves sometime with your bridgade :)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 12, 2015, 08:53:15 PM
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Wardie. In many ways, your description coincides with my experience in riding my DL 650. It isn't a power house, but I seldom have a problem keeping up with more powerful bikes in the twisties.I attribute that to ground clearance and weight, as well as the real world performance of the engine. I say real world, because there is the necessary balance between the geometry of the bike when mated with the engine. The Vstrom focuses its power and torque together to provide excellent performance through the range of the type of riding I enjoy, and I assume you may be saying the same about the CB500X. I researched your choice of luggage, and found that to be very appealing also. I have several Givi Monokey bags to choose from as a top case, and the soft bags with an internal waterproof liner should work well. For around $600 the bike could be outfitted with good touring luggage. My Vstrom has a strong appeal for me, but I'll continue to scout out the CB500X. A beg factor is that it's 50 lbs. lighter tan the Vstrom, which is no porker. Thanks again, Syd :D

That's my point..it's light and flickable and in the twisties it's about  keeping up cornering speed. There's hardly a decent straightaway in WVA (that we were on) so as long as I keep her "on the pipe" and mo-joing through the corner she'll keep up. Now if you're asking me to pass at 80 mph I want to plan this a little. That's where I miss the liter bike. I can go for a week with my Blaze /Bags Connection soft bags and fake GIVI top case. I'm trying out an Air Hawk. As a former Busa, Rockster and CBR 900 pilot I loved my Corbins but can't stand the look of one on my bike so I'm trying the hawk and will report my findings to the group. When I next see you plan on taking my bike out for a ride and see if it's something for you.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 12, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
If the good Lord leaves me here, I'll be in Lewisburg on Wed. again next year. I'll get my stuff in order, and be ready to ride on Thursday. The last couple of years, I've been fortunate to have Doug Pippin and Mickey Tyler to ride with. You are welcome to ride with me-us on Thursday, Friday, and or Saturday if you like. I detest riding with more than 5 in a group, so let me know somewhere down the road. I'd love the opportunity to swap bikes with you, and give the Honda a try! Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 13, 2015, 12:06:04 AM
By the way Wardie, I've been using an Airhawk for 3 years now, and it's been the best thing since sliced bread! I have the cheaper vinyl bladder in mine, because I wantedt to test it before spending the big bucks! It doesn't leak, and the adjustability of the ride is awesome. Like anything else, you have to work with it for a while to get it right. Syd:-)
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 13, 2015, 06:43:07 AM
The instructions say to inflate at maximum and sit on it, then slowly deflate till you have 1/8" of air/compression in it. I don't want to feel like I'm rolling around so 1/8" much be correct. Your opinion?
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: touringman on October 13, 2015, 11:36:45 AM
I didn't measure it per say. I let air out until I reached a stage that felt comfortable to me, and then gave it a real world test on a long ride. I made several adjustments along the way to find a perfect balance for me. This balance may vary from bike to bike, because of the different configurations of the seats. I use it on as many as 4 bikes with good results. I do attempt to leave enough air in it to cushion the top from the bottom. It just seems rational that the abrasion of one rubbing against the other might shorten the life of the cushion. Good luck, Syd :D
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on October 14, 2015, 06:03:47 PM
Bill (buckeye56),
Glad my talking (loudly I'm sure) about what we did that year at FCR paid off for you. Some of the first MC trips I made before joining the HSTA were with a friend down into that area of WV, we used to stay at a small motel on US250 in the town of Bartow (Hermitage Motel) which has closed since then. There are still things I want to see there, like the road that runs from Cass to near Bartow believe its called Back Mountain road and heard it provides nice views of the big dish at the observatory. Last I heard it was one of those "WV roads" 2 lanes of gravel with one lane paved (counts as a paved road).

We bugged out Saturday morning, for a very long ride home, that's why you didn't see us.

Norm/Wardie,
I've known Larry for a number of years now, he isn't that active in our NE Ohio group since he's usually very busy with his radio gig and following the MC industry events for it. But he has been to Mail Pouch a few times, our plans didn't align this last year to ride together. At FCR he showed up on Friday, and we went down on Thursday. Saturday we headed home while he was trying to find somebody to ride with.

I know what you mean about having others join an already large group. Even if my group isn't that large I'd like to know a little about those riding with me before bringing them in. Others are different, but I know most in the MSTA generally ride in smaller groups and with people they ride with regularly. Good to hear that everybody understands the reasons.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 15, 2015, 05:29:49 AM
Bill (buckeye56),

I know what you mean about having others join an already large group. Even if my group isn't that large I'd like to know a little about those riding with me before bringing them in. Others are different, but I know most in the MSTA generally ride in smaller groups and with people they ride with regularly. Good to hear that everybody understands the reasons.


The whole group riding thing is kind of a sticky subject. Most group riding is what I call "social group riding" where the basic intent is to be as inclusive as possible. There are many problems with this approach and it doesn't work for me.

I call what we do "interest group riding" to distinguish it from the rest. Our riding centers around specific common interests, such as pace, passing etiquette, frequency of stops, etc.  The key difference is that in social group riding, the group adapts to the newcomer, and in interest group riding, the newcomer adapts to the group.

In social group riding, our rules would seem strict and unfriendly, but our group has self-selected to be people who like our particular rules. For example, we want to avoid things like the "slowest common denominator" (one person who is much slower and holds the group up all day), people who enjoy the "gas game" (not starting with a full tank of gas, forcing extra gas stops) and smokers who want to force everyone to stand around in their gear on a hot day while they smoke, etc.

It's nice to do the social group thing, but you can take on strangers and wind up riding a whole season, never getting to ride the way you'd really like to. It's a big problem when people know you're into navigation and sees you as a navigator/ride leader that frees them of the need to learn to use a GPS or try to follow written instructions. Everyone wants to "tag along."

Interest group riding works best for me.

Norm Kern

Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Patmo on October 15, 2015, 08:39:07 AM
Very well put, Norm.  Do you mind if I copy this and post it up on the Ky-MSTA FBook site?
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RIDEMYST on October 15, 2015, 08:50:15 AM
Norm, no truer words were spoken! -JEP-


Sent by using these little bitty keys on my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: DirtFlier on October 15, 2015, 09:04:43 AM
When I was working Registration at Fall Colors, a rider asked me "Who's leading the ride tomorrow?"  I politely told him that we don't have led rides and only ride in small groups.   I'll never understand why some people have a need to be led somewhere because it's certainly not my idea of fun.  :-(
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: HawkGTRider on October 15, 2015, 12:15:23 PM
When I was working Registration at Fall Colors, a rider asked me "Who's leading the ride tomorrow?"  I politely told him that we don't have led rides and only ride in small groups.   I'll never understand why some people have a need to be led somewhere because it's certainly not my idea of fun.  :-(
While that doesn't work for you, it does work for a lot of people. At STAR we asked people to volunteer to lead groups of a size with which they were comfortable. These rides were broken down by levels of "enthusiasm" so that even if you didn't have a riding group, you could probably find a small-to-large group with which to ride in a flower sniffing-to-hard charging manner. It worked pretty well. I expect we'll be doing that again with some tweaks.
Like clubs in general, we are a social group. If you don't have riding buddies, most still don't want to ride alone. I feel like it's more of a feeling of being included than needing to be led. If people found their way to an event, they obviously know how to find their way from one place to another. My guess is that it's the desire to be part of something that leads a person to ask about led rides.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Patmo on October 15, 2015, 02:23:41 PM
It's been my experience that people that are "new" to an area are much more inclined to look for a "led" ride.  People more familiar with the area, because of prior experience, are more willing to either go out on their own or become the leader.  Expereience leading a group usually leads to more comfort doing it, but the catch is that it can only happen by doing. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: fz1grl on October 15, 2015, 03:18:52 PM
When I was working Registration at Fall Colors, a rider asked me "Who's leading the ride tomorrow?"  I politely told him that we don't have led rides and only ride in small groups.   I'll never understand why some people have a need to be led somewhere because it's certainly not my idea of fun.  :-(
While that doesn't work for you, it does work for a lot of people. At STAR we asked people to volunteer to lead groups of a size with which they were comfortable. These rides were broken down by levels of "enthusiasm" so that even if you didn't have a riding group, you could probably find a small-to-large group with which to ride in a flower sniffing-to-hard charging manner. It worked pretty well. I expect we'll be doing that again with some tweaks.
Like clubs in general, we are a social group. If you don't have riding buddies, most still don't want to ride alone. I feel like it's more of a feeling of being included than needing to be led. If people found their way to an event, they obviously know how to find their way from one place to another. My guess is that it's the desire to be part of something that leads a person to ask about led rides.


For me it's having someone to visit with at stops, take breaks with and eat lunch with.  I'll never ever be the fastest rider but I love to ride.
I'm a willing ride leader but most folks don't want to ride at my pace.  I can find my way just about anywhere and have even in Europe so it's not for that reason that's for sure.


I've been leading a Sunday Funday ride out of my dealer's here in OKC and that is maybe the only place i'm actually faster than the rest of the group but then they are 75% cruisers and 20% adventure bikes.  Once in a while I'm not the only one riding a sport bike which is how they see my bike. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: RIDEMYST on October 15, 2015, 03:19:55 PM
Good dialogue here guys!


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Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 16, 2015, 08:18:57 AM
Very well put, Norm.  Do you mind if I copy this and post it up on the Ky-MSTA FBook site?

Pat,

You're welcome to share my comments on FB. I've been thinking about writing a feature article for STAReview on this subject. The only thing that's held me back is the thought that some may decry these ideas as exclusive rather than inclusive.

I already have an interest group document to explain the philosophy and rules for my riding group. It was developed last winter and our group followed it closely all season. Everyone had a good time and there were no mishaps. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will email it to you.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 16, 2015, 08:37:53 AM
It's been my experience that people that are "new" to an area are much more inclined to look for a "led" ride.  People more familiar with the area, because of prior experience, are more willing to either go out on their own or become the leader.  Expereience leading a group usually leads to more comfort doing it, but the catch is that it can only happen by doing. 

Before you can lead, you have to be able to navigate. Here's my personal riding group rule:
4.      "Every rider needs to navigate- have a GPS and use it. A GPS is not mandatory, but if you are not using a GPS loaded with the day's route, you need to ride in the middle of the riding group to minimize the chance of getting lost/separated from the group."

I encourage everyone to have a GPS with the route loaded and use it. That way if they get separated from the group they are not lost. I encourage them to follow the route on their GPS- double check me and learn navigation. Then they can ride independently if they want to do a different route, or LEAD THEIR OWN GROUP.

I also encourage group members to have a Sena 20s BT communicator and participate in group intercom so we can discuss the route as we ride. Gentlemen, THIS is how new group leaders are developed.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 16, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
At STAR we asked people to volunteer to lead groups of a size with which they were comfortable. These rides were broken down by levels of "enthusiasm" so that even if you didn't have a riding group, you could probably find a small-to-large group with which to ride in a flower sniffing-to-hard charging manner. It worked pretty well. I expect we'll be doing that again with some tweaks.
Like clubs in general, we are a social group. If you don't have riding buddies, most still don't want to ride alone. I feel like it's more of a feeling of being included than needing to be led. If people found their way to an event, they obviously know how to find their way from one place to another. My guess is that it's the desire to be part of something that leads a person to ask about led rides.

We DO need people to lead all kinds of groups. There ought to be an opportunity at sign-in to declare if you are willing to lead, state your general pace and rules, and space availability for additional riders.

If you want someone to ride with, get a GPS, learn how to use it, and offer to lead. It will take some time, but you will wind up with plenty of people to ride with. Figure out your preferred style and ride format and be up front about what you want. People with similar interests will come on board. Boom! You have Interest Group riding.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Patmo on October 16, 2015, 10:36:37 AM
Norm...

.while I agree with you that the leader must be able to navigate, I do have to disagree with you about "needing" a GPS to do so......even though I do have one now, and am making "friends" with it, LOL.  The ability to read a map has helped me navigate thousands of miles over the years without needing or using a GPS.  I realize that the GPS is the wave of the future, but a basic knowledge of how to read a map is still a basic need if one hopes to develop and use routes.

.....it is very difficult to balance the need to bring new members into the group, and make them feel welcome and comfortable, and still keep current members feeling safe and comfortable when riding in a group.  I think that the signup sheets and MSTA Ambassador program that was used at STAR was popular and well received.  I hope to see it in use in the future, not only at STAR events, but also at regional events. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 16, 2015, 11:59:30 AM
Norm...

.while I agree with you that the leader must be able to navigate, I do have to disagree with you about "needing" a GPS to do so......even though I do have one now, and am making "friends" with it, LOL.  The ability to read a map has helped me navigate thousands of miles over the years without needing or using a GPS.  I realize that the GPS is the wave of the future, but a basic knowledge of how to read a map is still a basic need if one hopes to develop and use routes.

Leading a ride involves extra distractions and responsibilities.  There's the distraction of making sure other riders are collected at turns, making sure everyone in the group gets around slower traffic etc. On the responsibility side, errors in navigation require everyone to turn around when a road dead ends or turns into a dual-sport route. The penalty for navigation errors is magnified when there are more riders in the group. I want to enjoy the ride even though I am leading. The GPS with route info and voice prompts when a turn is coming up is a big plus, just as the BT intercom gives me additional eyes and ears to know when to slow down or wait.

Bottom line- A GPS with the route loaded makes leading a ride more enjoyable and less stressful for me.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: DirtFlier on October 16, 2015, 01:41:38 PM
A GPS with the days' route also helps those who get separated in a new & strange area.  With a GPS and the route, there is no need to panic - just follow the purple line on the screen!   

When I'm at an event, I usually put the hotel in as one of my "Favorites" so if during the day, I feel like heading back to the barn, it's simple. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: brider on October 16, 2015, 05:14:14 PM
As someome that spends a lot of time lost I just go with plan b.  If you never know where you are going you will always make good time getting there.  I live by this and yet there are fools that follow me.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 16, 2015, 05:42:16 PM
Okay since my comment seemed to have started this whole ride thing I'll state my thoughts with no malice or intent towards anyone. I appreciate Norms comments , and can understand about selected riders in a group. I was a little put off because no one asked me during any of the conversation that night about my skill set. For all any of you know I could be a Valentino Rossi or a Squid. For many years I crossed this country riding with only two other guys and seldom if any rode with others because we like to curve and twist the wrist, many don't keep up and I didn't want to hold hands so to speak.. So everything Norm said was understandable and I would agree. Personally I don't know any of you (except Steve)  and have no idea if you can keep up with me if needed... but my buddy ( a new MSTA member) wanted to try group riding so as unaccustomed as I am to asking to be a part of a group ride I went to you and asked. The reason I asked you Norm was because someone was kind enough to point you out as a ride leader and to speak to you.

My only concern that night was to make sure my buddy and a new MSTA member would enjoy himself at FCR. If to him riding in a group to a cool destination was a positive experience then he would want to do more of this rally thing. I had hoped to latch on with your group Norm but due to the reasons you stated the group ride wasn't possible.

I do hope that on some of these events there is a way for new or newer members to gain some experience by tagging along on some group rides where it is possible.

Thank you gentlemen for all weighing in , much appreciated everyone's comments. Larry aka Wardie


Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Ohiomsta on October 16, 2015, 06:28:39 PM
As someome that spends a lot of time lost I just go with plan b.  If you never know where you are going you will always make good time getting there.  I live by this and yet there are fools that follow me.

Yep I'm one of the fools that follow you. We seem to always get there, always find some great roads and seem to make good time. We do it with only 2 rules, wait at the next turn and don't run into each other. Works for us!
Jon Sr.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 17, 2015, 06:31:36 AM
Okay since my comment seemed to have started this whole ride thing I'll state my thoughts with no malice or intent towards anyone. I appreciate Norms comments , and can understand about selected riders in a group. I was a little put off because no one asked me during any of the conversation that night about my skill set. ...

 Larry aka Wardie

Wardie,

FWIW, that evening, I wasn't concerned about your skill set or whether your bike could "keep up." (Someone else brought that up.) My first thought was about a line of riders getting longer with two newcomers. Some of the people in my group ride with me because they don't want to ride in a large group and they know I'm careful about that. They would be asking me why I took on two more riders.

At the same time, I was looking at the situation from your point of view. You're bringing someone new to an MSTA event to show them how much fun it is and bring them on board. Then you get snubbed. I hated every moment of that, but was stuck in the middle.

How would you feel if you were regularly put in a public position where you're expected to take on strangers and newcomers, then have to look like a dick to them when you have to decline.

I got screwed big time a couple of years ago when I had a nice group of 4 other riders at a rally. Then another friend crashed the party with two newbies in tow who were completely unprepared. He doesn't navigate so he can't take the new guys on his own and I get stuck with all 3 of them. That was only the beginning of a long horror story that led me to make a rule:

If you bring someone new to a rally, be prepared to ride with them and be prepared to lead.

Just another reason for my perspective that everyone needs to learn to navigate and needs to be able to lead the ride.

Best wishes,

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Patmo on October 17, 2015, 08:39:09 AM
I agree that having a GPS, and knowing how to use it, makes leading a ride much easier.  But, depending on it can also cause problems and/or lead to opportunities to ride new roads....:).  A lot of thst depends on how well its programmed and how adept one is at using it.  I speak from experience on both ends of thst spectrum....having used a GPS at TriStar and finally being able to ride the Indisn Valley route without missing any turns, and having had some problems with following routes a few other times at other rallies.  However, I blame most of thst on my own inexperience and lack of GPS "savvy".  But it's all good.....

"When you don't care where you're going.....any road will get you there."




Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: Patmo on October 17, 2015, 09:08:26 AM
a rule:

If you bring someone new to a rally, be prepared to ride with them and be prepared to lead.

Just another reason for my perspective that everyone needs to learn to navigate and needs to be able to lead the ride.



I think this is a good rule.....and FWIW, keep in mind it doesn't say you WILL have to lead, it only says to be PREPARED.  There is only so much we can do as a "club"  to make new people feel welcome.  The MSTA Ambassador program, started at the last STAR, is the newest program to be put into effect.  But all of the program's we have tried do rely on current members volunteering to take new members under their wing.  Most of the time this works out really well and everyone is happy, but not always.  But, this program has the advantage of the leader being s volunteer and knowing that they might have to adjust their own riding style to accomidate someone else, and being willing to do so beforehand.  The ride sheets used at STAR, which were set up to accomidate different riding "styles" and keep the group sizes small, are a template thst could be used at all the rallies, as needed.  But it takes volunteers to do this.  I encourage anyone thst would feel comfortable doing this to step up and volunteer at least once.  Most of the rallies we have would only need one person, for one day, to have this work. 
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: dpippin on October 17, 2015, 09:11:54 AM
Norm...

.while I agree with you that the leader must be able to navigate, I do have to disagree with you about "needing" a GPS to do so......even though I do have one now, and am making "friends" with it, LOL.  The ability to read a map has helped me navigate thousands of miles over the years without needing or using a GPS.  I realize that the GPS is the wave of the future, but a basic knowledge of how to read a map is still a basic need if one hopes to develop and use routes.
 

Pat
In order to create GPS routes you have to be able to read and use maps, whether they are on paper or on a computer screen.

When GPS routes are created by the organizers then offered to event participants, its important that participants review the routes prior to the event so they'll know where they are going.
Your GPS just shows your a view of a small portion of the route. You need to have a knowledge of the whole route and a general idea where it goes
I think it would be very confusing to just follow that line on the GPS and not have any idea where you are and where your going.

Doug
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 17, 2015, 09:53:42 AM
Norm now that it has been explained I certainly  understand the situation you were put in. I did lead the ride on Saturday and several times through the 200 mile jaunt Nate led. Nate is a skilled rider just quiet. Nate is a computer programmer and easily downloaded the maps into his gps. I just used my gps to locate where we were and where we needed to go. I always carry maps in case my modern technology (Garmin) should fail I need to know how to get home probably being an old fart and an IBA member I never forget a map of the area.

I'm glad to see that their is a Ambassador/volunteer program and if I'm at an MSTA Rally and asked I certainly would volunteer to lead a ride, but I'd have a riders meeting before hand go over the general rules and each's responsibilities probably much like you do with your guys.

Nate has gone on a couple of BMW Rallys (were crashed them with Hondas ) and I've had him lead several times so I could judge his skill set  . I think because he has ridden with me a few times he wanted to experience "group" riding. Honestly I never asked why I sure thought we were fine but it was a request and I invited him so I too was put into a position I'm not all together comfortable with and that is asking to join a group. Last year at Fly By I knew there were going to be some guys who could carve and one of them I knew and tagged along last year and had a blast .

Nate had a good time albeit the rain and is interested in doing more MSTA events. I appreciate this forum and airing out situations and ideas. Thanks to all.



Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: stevegrab on October 17, 2015, 02:03:20 PM
I agree that having a GPS, and knowing how to use it, makes leading a ride much easier.  But, depending on it can also cause problems and/or lead to opportunities to ride new roads....:).  A lot of thst depends on how well its programmed and how adept one is at using it.  I speak from experience on both ends of thst spectrum....having used a GPS at TriStar and finally being able to ride the Indisn Valley route without missing any turns, and having had some problems with following routes a few other times at other rallies.  However, I blame most of thst on my own inexperience and lack of GPS "savvy".  But it's all good.....

"When you don't care where you're going.....any road will get you there."
The Indian Valley route - used to get lost on that one too before GPS. In fact it was following routes at events like Tri-STAR that had me looking to get a GPS. Even some state highways are much harder to navigate in southern states than at home in Ohio. But now I use it regularly as reading a map in my tank bag is hard without removing my glasses worn for distance.

Great discussion here by the way, agree with most of it. Even within my local group I wish more people were willing to lead. Many expect somebody else to decide where to ride and do the leading. For years it was somebody now its me. I try to welcome new riders, but as Norm and others point out its a juggling act. In Lexington at STAR we had a group of 6 riding down, and picked up 2 more at the event. Still a manageable size with a group accustomed to each othe (one was new a guy from Australia). Then for the lunch ride a few more were interested, in order to accommodate them I got Quint (qman) to take the "faster" guys and go. This allowed me to lead a more relaxed pace that worked for the others (especially our senior rider of 80+ who was instrumental in the early formation of our local group).

Anyway so when are we riding again :-) 

Larry next weekend there is an Ohio lunch ride near Wheeling that I plan to attend weather permitting. I'll post that on our Yahoo list, if you're not on that email me and i'll add you or forward info.

Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: wardie on October 17, 2015, 03:01:45 PM
Steve thanks for the invite. If you could send the info to kbike85@hotmail.com or text me that would be great.
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: normkern on October 18, 2015, 09:19:27 AM
LOTS of good discussion here. Thanks to all who replied!

Norm Kern
Title: Re: Fall Colors 2015
Post by: bcd on October 18, 2015, 12:23:54 PM
This is a great discussion with lots of good points.  Thanks to all.