Post by: RIDEMYST on April 15, 2015, 02:31:23 PM
Our forum on the other hand seems to get very little traffic/posts compared to other sites.
I don't understand why.
We have nearly 1500 members and many guests on this site but very few posts.
For me this site is easy to navigate and make posts (as easy as any of the other forums).
It is a shame that it is not used by all of our members as it is such a great source to communicate with our membership.
Anyone have any ideas as to why? Better yet, how can we get others involved? -JEP-
Post by: Patmo on April 15, 2015, 04:59:32 PM
Post by: Brick on April 15, 2015, 06:01:11 PM
Obviously I don't agree and have not been able to convince them to try again.
As a side note... I don't think many of the on-line members actually do download and read it. Just my $.02.
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
Post by: Landon on April 15, 2015, 06:01:43 PM
Post by: NinjaBob on April 15, 2015, 08:59:03 PM
Post by: Landon on April 15, 2015, 09:06:21 PM
After all, we all know the Concours 14 is the slam dunk best Sport Tourer ever made. So what's to argue about? 8)
Hey, I have both my 09 Versys and 06 KLX up for sale. Thing is the Concours 14 is one of the bikes I am considering as the replacement. The 2015 can be had in Kawa Green ;D
Post by: roginoz on April 15, 2015, 10:08:31 PM
It's not the volume of traffic, but the quality of information that's important. Also, I think that we may have a more mature user group that doesn't waste time baiting each other or going on about non-motorcycling topics.
Post by: Paco Bulto on April 16, 2015, 12:23:14 AM
After all, we all know the Concours 14 is the slam dunk best Sport Tourer ever made. So what's to argue about? 8)
Hey, I have both my 09 Versys and 06 KLX up for sale. Thing is the Concours 14 is one of the bikes I am considering as the replacement. The 2015 can be had in Kawa Green ;D
Where is the KLX listed, Landon?
Post by: fartymarty on April 16, 2015, 02:20:15 AM
After all, we all know the Concours 14 is the slam dunk best Sport Tourer ever made. So what's to argue about? 8)
Well that may get some activity going. Not from me of course (since I sort of agree, but which is the fastest color? Candy Neptune Blue ya say?.. Well then there's no argument here to see ..just move along folks.), but someone may rise to the bait.
Our forum on the other hand seems to get very little traffic/posts compared to other sites.
I don't understand why.
We have nearly 1500 members and many guests on this site but very few posts.
For me this site is easy to navigate and make posts (as easy as any of the other forums).
It is a shame that it is not used by all of our members as it is such a great source to communicate with our membership.
Anyone have any ideas as to why? Better yet, how can we get others involved? -JEP-
Yeah the bike specific forums have a leg up on us here because of common accessory install problems, and common maintenance problems can generate a lot of posts and share a lot of valuable information. Still there are areas that just pertain to sport touring and there aren't really that many different models of sport touring bikes are there? There could be a bike specific section here with some sub sections for the more popular models, No? Yes?
I could try and generate discussion by just posting questions in the General Discussion section,
"Do you have trouble sleeping the night before a trip?";
"If you could have any other Sport Touring bike (besides the one you currently have, you have to select another one) which would it be?";
"What's in your First Aid kit?...You do bring a First Aid kit on a trip...don't you?";
"What does your pillion rider do that irritates you the most?";
"What bugs you most about group rides?";
"I really, really, (I mean REALLY) hate washing my bike, got any tips to make it easier or faster?"
"What's the best oil?"....OK just kidding on this last one.....but you get the idea. I'd be generating discussion (well OK, that's not a given, but I might.), however I wouldn't be posting any real content, and besides, I'd look like a douche. (well a bigger douche)
Perhaps it's a good question to be widely asked at the National in Springdale?
Either Officially from the podium, or just out in the parking lot as the occasion presents itself.
It's a tough question, but an important one IMO.
Post by: Brick on April 16, 2015, 06:33:40 AM
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
Post by: RIDEMYST on April 16, 2015, 06:56:38 AM
Why don't the officers participate?
I did a quick check on the forum members list and here is what I saw from our Executive Committee (EC) members:
Dennis 52
Ann 6
Geoffrey 101
Dianne 4
Choon 34 (past EC member)
Not great on some accounts but certainly not an absence by our EC members. -JEP-
Post by: VersysRider on April 16, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
Why don't the officers participate?My guess is the same reason you didn't participate much when you were prez....lack of time. Just sayin...
Post by: VersysRider on April 16, 2015, 09:36:49 AM
As a side note... I don't think many of the on-line members actually do download and read it. Just my $.02.I guessing you are referring to STAReview. The most recent issue has been downloaded 872 times. Whether or not it's read is another story...
Post by: Brick on April 16, 2015, 10:07:12 AM
Why don't the officers participate?My guess is the same reason you didn't participate much when you were prez....lack of time. Just sayin...
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
Post by: Brick on April 16, 2015, 10:08:36 AM
As a side note... I don't think many of the on-line members actually do download and read it. Just my $.02.I guessing you are referring to STAReview. The most recent issue has been downloaded 872 times. Whether or not it's read is another story...
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
Post by: PaulM on April 16, 2015, 11:06:01 AM
Paul
Post by: motodog650 on April 16, 2015, 12:05:17 PM
"School me on Hand Guns" or "Espresso Machines" or "HVAC Systems" etc...
The "I want a Pony" threads are very popular also ;D ;D ;D
Post by: stevegrab on April 16, 2015, 12:18:37 PM
- for many that got on before, they got tired of the frequent reboots and failures, that are really a distant memory now
- for some they just don't have the time or interest to spend browsng another forum and reading threads and topics and posting. (They still prefer the old style email list where everything is sent directly to them. They are not all technophobes, they're intelligent and savvy web users, but just don't have the time or desire to participate. And no matter what aids the web site may have to enable this to work in an email list type mode, it is far more complex than joining the list and getting ALL posts sent to it, at least as far as I know
- even the old email list had relatively low participation, with far less than 50% of the members using it, and a small percentage of those doing the most posting
- facebook is another thing that takes some traffic away, people who use FB love it being their all encompassing communication tool. As an example my brother Richard (not picking on you bro) used to read the forum regularly and post too. Now when we talk about it he says he rarely goes there, but often sees MSTA stuff on his FB, or sees stuff from other MSTA members he's friends with on FB. I am not saying we should get rid of our FB page, but that has moved traffic over there. And many are not on FB, and I'm not going to join just because people have changed to using that for most of their communication.
As for what can we do to change it, I've said this before and I also know I've failed to follow through with my own local group. Sitting down with those who don't use the forum and showing them how it works, what is there, how to register, post etc.
Sadly I think it is what it is, the fewer posts the slower the traffic the less the regulars who post do so. When it gets slow there isn't much to talk about, or comment on. I bought a GoPro a while back, posted a thread asking for some advice, I got 2 responses and commented once after that myself. I know there are many others who are somewhat active on the forum with experience with GoPros or shooting video from the bike and was surprised there were not more replies. I'm not complaining or calling people out, but determined I'd need to find other sources for more info, or contact some people directly.
Really there are too many places, too many source, too many things to do and not enough time to do them. Or it isn't very enjoyable compared to other things so we don't do it as much.
Post by: qman8 on April 16, 2015, 03:30:09 PM
I think most have touched on the various reasons
- for many that got on before, they got tired of the frequent reboots and failures, that are really a distant memory now
- for some they just don't have the time or interest to spend browsng another forum and reading threads and topics and posting. (They still prefer the old style email list where everything is sent directly to them. They are not all technophobes, they're intelligent and savvy web users, but just don't have the time or desire to participate. And no matter what aids the web site may have to enable this to work in an email list type mode, it is far more complex than joining the list and getting ALL posts sent to it, at least as far as I know
- even the old email list had relatively low participation, with far less than 50% of the members using it, and a small percentage of those doing the most posting
- facebook is another thing that takes some traffic away, people who use FB love it being their all encompassing communication tool. As an example my brother Richard (not picking on you bro) used to read the forum regularly and post too. Now when we talk about it he says he rarely goes there, but often sees MSTA stuff on his FB, or sees stuff from other MSTA members he's friends with on FB. I am not saying we should get rid of our FB page, but that has moved traffic over there. And many are not on FB, and I'm not going to join just because people have changed to using that for most of their communication.
As for what can we do to change it, I've said this before and I also know I've failed to follow through with my own local group. Sitting down with those who don't use the forum and showing them how it works, what is there, how to register, post etc.
Sadly I think it is what it is, the fewer posts the slower the traffic the less the regulars who post do so. When it gets slow there isn't much to talk about, or comment on. I bought a GoPro a while back, posted a thread asking for some advice, I got 2 responses and commented once after that myself. I know there are many others who are somewhat active on the forum with experience with GoPros or shooting video from the bike and was surprised there were not more replies. I'm not complaining or calling people out, but determined I'd need to find other sources for more info, or contact some people directly.
Really there are too many places, too many source, too many things to do and not enough time to do them. Or it isn't very enjoyable compared to other things so we don't do it as much.
Could another factor also be that the average age of a MSTA member is about 123!!! :-)
Post by: Brick on April 16, 2015, 05:08:01 PM
[/quote]
Could another factor also be that the average age of a MSTA member is about 123!!! :-)
[/quote]
Post by: NinjaBob on April 17, 2015, 09:52:28 AM
Buy the C14 but keep the KLX. The two make great stable mates.After all, we all know the Concours 14 is the slam dunk best Sport Tourer ever made. So what's to argue about? 8)
Hey, I have both my 09 Versys and 06 KLX up for sale. Thing is the Concours 14 is one of the bikes I am considering as the replacement. The 2015 can be had in Kawa Green ;D
Post by: HawkGTRider on April 17, 2015, 05:11:17 PM
Darn straight...just like having multiple types of shoes in the closet.Buy the C14 but keep the KLX. The two make great stable mates.After all, we all know the Concours 14 is the slam dunk best Sport Tourer ever made. So what's to argue about? 8)
Hey, I have both my 09 Versys and 06 KLX up for sale. Thing is the Concours 14 is one of the bikes I am considering as the replacement. The 2015 can be had in Kawa Green ;D
Post by: Landon on April 17, 2015, 05:48:43 PM
Post by: HawkGTRider on April 17, 2015, 05:52:18 PM
I'd have lots of bikes if possible, but I am at a different point in my life than most MSTA members. I've got a 1 and 4 year old at home, so my shoes are busy with them 95% of the time. I don't have time for both bikes, so I've decided to consolidate and get one. Someday I will return to multiple bikes, but right now I am enjoying spending my free time with the wife and kids.If you're needing to pare the fleet down to one (and I certainly understand with the family), why aren't you keeping the Versys? That's a fine, do-everything, kind of bike. If I could keep only one of my bikes, I think it'd be my BMW F650GS (thumper). It's shown me it's capable of everything from thousand mile days all the way down to dual sport rides that are as gnarly as I want to do the vast majority of the time. The GS and the Versys aren't "exactly" on the same plane, but the Versys probably makes up on the street what it lacks off pavement in a comparison of the two.
Post by: Landon on April 17, 2015, 06:08:51 PM
why aren't you keeping the Versys?
Honestly, that's a good and fair question. I've had the Versys for a few years and I just have the bug for something different mainly. Plus I want a bike that I can leave after work on a Friday and head down to TN/NC and return home on Sunday afternoon. The Versys will do it, but IMO its not great for eating up miles of interstate at a time. Its great for 3-400 mile day rides around home but its not a long distance machine (at least for me). I think a C14 will eat the interstate miles and still be a blast when you get to the curvy mountain roads.
Post by: Patmo on April 17, 2015, 07:39:54 PM
I was hoping that the FJ-09 would be a cross between the two classes of bikes and give us the best of both.
I'm still hoping that someone will build a bike that is.
Post by: brider on April 17, 2015, 08:02:45 PM
I owned a 1st gen Connie for many years and used it as you described. It was a wonderful bike for eating up miles, but a bit large and heavy when it got into the technical mountain roads. Quite a bit of work, and tiring, to throw around on those roads. I don't own a Verseys, but my FZ6 is somewhat similar. I agree with your discription of bikes like it. Not great on the highway, but almost perfect for 300-400 miles of back roads.
I was hoping that the FJ-09 would be a cross between the two classes of bikes and give us the best of both.
I'm still hoping that someone will build a bike that is.
So what is wroing with the FJ-09?
Post by: Patmo on April 17, 2015, 08:47:34 PM
I owned a 1st gen Connie for many years and used it as you described. It was a wonderful bike for eating up miles, but a bit large and heavy when it got into the technical mountain roads. Quite a bit of work, and tiring, to throw around on those roads. I don't own a Verseys, but my FZ6 is somewhat similar. I agree with your discription of bikes like it. Not great on the highway, but almost perfect for 300-400 miles of back roads.
I was hoping that the FJ-09 would be a cross between the two classes of bikes and give us the best of both.
I'm still hoping that someone will build a bike that is.
So what is wroing with the FJ-09?
I like it, but I was hoping for more wind protection, hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, etc. as standard equipment...kind of a mini-FJR.......along with a lower seat height.
Post by: Landon on April 17, 2015, 08:53:26 PM
I've not ridden or seen an FJ-09 in person, but I put it in more of a class with the Versys. I want something with more weather protection.
Post by: Patmo on April 17, 2015, 09:16:55 PM
I owned an 05 ST1300 and put 85,000 miles on it. It was a great bike for me, I never felt that it was a workout to run it through the curves. I never got to the end of a day and felt beat by it. Always got off and felt like I could go for another 100 miles if I wanted. I need to find a C14 to take for a spin, I am hoping it would be much like the ST. I'd go back to an ST, but like many others I feel its dated. Plus I feel like I've been there and done that and want to try something else.
I've not ridden or seen an FJ-09 in person, but I put it in more of a class with the Versys. I want something with more weather protection.
If the ST weight and heft didn't bother you, I think the newer Connie will feel like a middleweight to you. And a rocket ship!
Post by: 96viffer on April 18, 2015, 04:29:49 PM
Why don't the officers participate?
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
I seem to recall you asked the same question quite awhile back when I was the membership director, and I said something to the effect that I had a life outside of the MSTA. I still do, and I suspect the current officers do too.
You know the best part of not being an officer any longer? I get to complain and criticize with impunity every decision the officers make, just like some are apt to do. No more need to bite my tongue and provide polite, level headed, reasoned responses.
Post by: HawkGTRider on April 18, 2015, 06:01:31 PM
Why don't the officers participate?
Why don't the officers participate?
I did a quick check on the forum members list and here is what I saw from our Executive Committee (EC) members:
Dennis 52
Ann 6
Geoffrey 101
Dianne 4
Choon 34 (past EC member)
Not great on some accounts but certainly not an absence by our EC members. -JEP-
I
(snip)
I am out riding my Super Teneré'!
Brick,
I like your change in by-line. You used to say "I might be out riding...." Now it's "I am out riding...." Maybe the officers, myself included, are trying to squeeze in more riding time in between the club's time consuming stuff of which few people are aware.
Post by: fartymarty on April 19, 2015, 02:36:37 PM
Probably not I guess. Well to some it's a concern to others it isn't. As a newbie to the MSTA, I can't comment much about the officer's participation. I think if I was an officer I'd be careful and limit my responses to avoid starting anything that could turn viral and negative. However I do think the whole organization would benefit from more content on the forum. Not only have some utility for useful info, but also to make the MSTA have an internet presence that is in proportion with it's......not sure what to say here....stature?...viability?...attractiveness? Yes I think the MSTA website (http://ridemsta.com/srblog/) is well done, but just seeing photos of groups appearing to have a good time and trying to imagine the parking lot chatter is easier with a forum to sort of preview the personality of the organization. As a noob, maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on the forum. I guess I'll know more after the 2015 Star National in Springdale. Of course everyone here will hate me after I win the FJR. My effectiveness may be zero after that happens, but I'll try to help by going out on a limb and post some stuff that might be interesting to some. I'm sure some have things they can post but don't, thinking that the minute they do, someone else will come along and post something better or let them know that they are doing "it" (whatever it is) incorrectly. I'll swallow my pride and maybe post about how I set up my HF tire changer in my garage. Nothing exceptional, probably typical, but perhaps it will flush out others that are and aren't respectively. It also will bring out those that have a NO-MAR and how it is so much better etc etc which is OK., or those that made a changer out of a junked automotive wheel or whatever. All good info and content for the forum IMO. (https://ridemsta.com/mstaforums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sherv.net%2Fcm%2Femoticons%2Fyes%2Ftwo-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif&hash=3198f9eddc4958a6ed979f84acd3ee922a76a37b)
Post by: fartymarty on April 28, 2015, 01:29:45 PM
Wow, we are on page three* in only four days! (*using the forum default of 15 per page). Maybe to ask the question, is the answer to the question?
..or maybe not..
Part of the problem could be all the diversions, why does the MSTA have so many local Yahoo groups and local facebook groups. These just tend to divert content away from the forum instead of towards it. One person instead of posting pictures on the forum just put up a link to to all of their facebook photos from the event. WTF? All these local groups and facebook pages just divide a large National SportTOURING group into little local comfortable bike riding groups united by a good magazine. We will end up with people only going to a national rally when it's within 300 miles of their local group.
Perhaps (controversial big step) these groups and facebook pages shouldn't be allowed to use the MSTA name unless they have a link to the forum or at least the national website near the top, close to or in their title banners?
Yeah, that'd probably never fly. This forum might not either, but I hope it does.
Post by: Doug Just Doug on April 28, 2015, 02:33:57 PM
Post by: banjobart on April 28, 2015, 10:50:54 PM
National events will suffer when the location is far from the majority of members. If one wants the maximum attendance at national or regional events then these must be located near the area where most members live.
Post by: banjobart on April 28, 2015, 11:04:53 PM
I have been involved with several similar organizations to MSTA the last 40 years and volunteered several thousand hours. I speak from experience. The grassroots members are people looking for a weekend activity, something to look forward to do on the weekend that is fun. If they find this first they may later consider attending regional and national events. But all participation starts at the local level and it appears that Facebook provides one effective method to spread the word.
Post by: Patmo on April 29, 2015, 07:32:57 AM
This is coming from someone that resisted getting onto Facebook for years, even while I was supporting an MSTA website and forum as being essential to our continued existence as a club. But I've seen firsthand just how important Facebook is in today's society, and to so many young adults today.
Post by: Landon on April 29, 2015, 07:45:32 AM
Post by: fartymarty on April 29, 2015, 01:55:54 PM
Facebook, and other "social media" sites like it, are how you reach new (younger) people today. For example....the local Cafe Racer group in Cincinnati started up TWO years ago on Facebook. They just recently reached SEVEN HUNDRED members following the Facebook page. This past winter they put on an indoor custom bike show...fracturing everything from one off customs to land speed record bikes and including sport bikes, choppers, and home built cafe racers...and the only way it was promoted was by Facebook and word of mouth. It drew somewhere around 3-4 THOUSAND people to a downtown brewery over a February weekend. We NEED to USE Facebook and the like even more than we currently do. EVERY one of our state chapters should have a Facebook page, should update it often, and all members should be encouraged to use it and share it.The local cafe racer group? Sport bikes, choppers, home built cafe racers? These relate to the MSTA and it's demographics, how?
Well you could be right, Facebook could be helping the MSTA a bit, but this thread was about forum activity. Facebook's goal is to get you there and keep you there. I'm suggesting that the MSTA require a link on any local MSTA facebook page or local Yahoo group page to the main MSTA website or to this forum. I guess it just depends on what this group is about, especially the "T" in MSTA. Is the MSTA a National Sport Touring group, or just a collection of local groups that share a magazine. I think this forum encourages the former, and local facebook/Yahoo groups encourages the latter. Facebook does reach a younger crowd, but most of the younger crowd don't have the money or vacation time to tour, and those that do can't fit all their children on their bikes. They locally sport bike, build cafe racers or choppers (and let's be honest, most ride cruisers), and they "tour" on line, or in cages, or in planes and Disney boats.
Another factor, is that I prefer going to one place to get what I need. Me going to the MSTA local yahoo group, then the local Texas MSTA Facebook page, then the National MSTA facebook page, then the MSTA Google plus community, then this MSTA forum,...well it's just not going to happen. If I have to do all that, then I'll just go to Sport-Touring.net. Perhaps I'm more lazy than most.
..at least that's my opinion. If we all agreed, then there would only be one model of Sport Touring bike and they'd all be the same color with the same farkles.
Post by: Patmo on April 29, 2015, 07:03:54 PM
Post by: GSRider2Up on April 29, 2015, 10:24:57 PM
Post by: fartymarty on April 30, 2015, 01:44:43 AM
If we wait until they are in our club demographics to reach out to them, we will have waited to long.
Patmo, I think your post above hit the nail squarely on the head regarding MSTA survival. Especially the last line that I quoted.
I agree that for MSTA survival, the MSTA must make itself known where it can. However getting back to the subject of the original post about forum activity, that without links to it from all the diversions (Facebook et al) the forum will continue as it does now. I'll admit that I have prejudices against Facebook, and that I never search Facebook for any of my interests. I currently always go to Google as my first choice. It directed me to the MSTA after I saw an ad in an old magazine for the HSTA and searched for it. When I first gazed upon the MSTA it was in the form of the old forum (found via Google, not Facebook) and I chose not to join at that time from what I saw. The content of the new forum wasn't that impressive when I returned for a later visit but I saw progress in that it was in a format that I was familiar with and I knew it was easy (for me anyway) to use. It led me to the main web site and it was at that point I joined because the group seemed much more viable. Perhaps Facebook is the future, but I think Google and the internet search engines in general are equal if not much more important. In my experience an internet search rarely turns up any Facebook content. Local rides could be just as easily arranged on the local sections of this forum, and it is much easier to navigate than Facebook or Yahoo groups, but that's just my opinion and I appear to be in the minority.
It has been pointed out to me (several times) that most MSTA members don't use the forum. I thought this thread was about how to change that. (although I did get a bit off track about the "Touring" aspect of the MSTA in my earlier post :-[ ) If more info was presented here about local events and links provided to that information from other sites such as Facebook, then maybe there would be more participation. I live in Texas and I plan on attending the TWiStar in Wisconsin, I learned about the event on this forum, not on Facebook.
Great organization, but very closed and protective. Generally only positive and supportive posts are welcomed. Holds the number of posts down.I'm too new to make that call, and it's difficult to get a feel for the Association just from the forum as it is currently. If it is true, it isn't unique to the MSTA, it is very common to many forums and organizations. The love it or leave it syndrome is how I think of it. On the internet I consider it the most negative by product of way too many trolls out there that just love to stir stuff up, and the results frequently just make it harder for someone with legitimate concerns or criticisms to get a word in. I haven't noticed it here, but it's a common occurrence and I wouldn't be surprised to see it, especially in an organization with such a long history.
Post by: DirtFlier on April 30, 2015, 05:08:02 AM
Post by: Patmo on April 30, 2015, 07:00:04 AM
Plus we have a fair number of members who are not computer literate at all.
Very true.
But even where all the members of an Internet forum are computer literate, it's been my experience that most posting is still done by a small core group of members.
Post by: Patmo on April 30, 2015, 07:12:43 AM
I don't disagree with the usefulness of linking the national forum from the local forums. I would also like to see everyone that is organizing a "MSTA" event post it up on the EVENTS CALENDAR on the national forum. I believe that the calendar is a very much underutilized aspect of the forums, and possibly the most useful tool to increasing usage of the forum we have.
Post by: Patmo on April 30, 2015, 07:20:04 AM
I don't do Facebook.
Pretty much until last year I didn't either. I started using it to stay in touch with my far flung family, especially my kids/grandkids and nieces/nephews. I got tired of my wife telling me that I would know what they were doing if I would just check Facebook. LOL
However, as I side effect I found that there is A LOT of MOTORCYCLE content on Facebook that can't be found anywhere else. I've also been able to reconnect with some childhood friends, and some HS/college friends I hadn't seen in 30 years.
It's been good for me.....your results may vary. :)
Post by: VersysRider on April 30, 2015, 07:24:36 AM
Great organization, but very closed and protective. Generally only positive and supportive posts are welcomed. Holds the number of posts down.And a troll post it is. Another negative post from GSRider2Up in a public forum area. All that was asked was that negative comments about the club be posted in the member's only sections or addressed to the EC directly by email. The MSTA forum is a promotional tool, so do you expect negative posts in public area to be accepted? A corporation wouldn't allow it, neither should the MSTA. All of your concerns were discussed and addressed appropriately, no matter how assanine they have been. Too bad for you that things didn't go your way. After more than 4 years, it's time to get over it and move on.
As for the other posts in this thread, this has been a healthy conversation that the next webmaster can analyze and work from. Keep the discussion and suggestions going. While all of the issues can't be addressed, there is certainly much room for improvement and this thread will go a long way in helping the next guy make these improvements.
Post by: DirtFlier on April 30, 2015, 07:36:19 AM
For many, it's just too easy to be on the outside and throw rocks - not offer constructive ideas, or even offer to help.
Tosh
Post by: 96viffer on May 02, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
[You know the best part of not being an officer any longer? I get to complain and criticize with impunity every decision the officers make, just like some are apt to do. No more need to bite my tongue and provide polite, level headed, reasoned responses...Choon]
For many, it's just too easy to be on the outside and throw rocks - not offer constructive ideas, or even offer to help.
Tosh
I hope that folks, especially for those who know me, reading this realize that my statements were made facetiously. Until I volunteered, I had absolutely no idea the amount of time, effort and commitment it took to keep this club running. Every decision is discussed and voted on. No decision is made lightly. Every officer I had the honor to serve with, past and present, never had any sort of personal agenda and only had the best interest of the club at heart.
As Tosh said, it's all too easy to cast aspersions, some personal, at the officers. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly these same people back pedal when approached to help with the club. "No time" seems to be a very common excuse. Alrighty then, how about having a little consideration for those who are giving their time?
Choon
Post by: GSRider2Up on May 02, 2015, 10:48:14 AM
Post by: GSRider2Up on May 02, 2015, 10:57:50 AM
I would hope you weren't targeting me in your comment about throwing stones. I once worked as a club volunteer on the club's web content. I have been in contact with a number of club presidents and board members with suggestions. I had volunteered to chair a national web/electronic club presence. I have written some best IT practices documents for the club. As was stated at the top of this thread, our Forum does not have a great level of participation and if people are serious about doing something about it, you have to have a serious discussion about why that is. As to my recent post, as I stated, a great organization, but it is a very closed and protective group. I've seen a number of members get chewed up and even board member.
Post by: VersysRider on May 02, 2015, 11:38:13 AM
Jon, what negative comment? Great organization - and the rest is very true. The Forum is very closed and protective. Just saying as it is. I've not posted anything for a very long time and people were asking why the Forum is not utilized more and I posted a reason why some people might not use the Forum more.That is not how your original post reads, it reads as if you were saying the organization is closed and protective. Anyway, this is not the case, even with the forum. Here's what gets you banned or warned: Political discussion, Religious discussion, and continual posting of negative comments about the club in a public forum area. Now, if the beef with the club or leadership is posted in a member's only area, then fine, as long as it's not threatening. Oh yeah, one other thing could get you banned, continually pissing off the admin, and that's only happened to one person. So, the forum isn't really closed and restrictive. The real reason? It's a dying form of communication. Facebook, Google+ and the like are slowing taking the audience of forums. Even vBulletin's new "forum" software (our former forum software) works more like Facebook than a traditional forum. That's not to say the forum doesn't serve as a useful tool for the MSTA. But eventually, several years down the road, no one will remember the MSTA forum.
On another note, the club desperately needs a forum administrator. I have heard this guys crap for more than four years and am done with it, he doesn't know when to quit. Please contact vice-president@ridemsta.com if you are interested. Notice that there is no "Forum Administrator" title under my name. I don't have admin access any longer so the forum will not receive any updates or maintenance until a volunteer steps up.
Post by: fartymarty on May 02, 2015, 03:54:48 PM
On another note, the club desperately needs a forum administrator. I have heard this guys crap for more than four years and am done with it, he doesn't know when to quit. Please contact vice-president@ridemsta.com if you are interested. Notice that there is no "Forum Administrator" title under my name. I don't have admin access any longer so the forum will not receive any updates or maintenance until a volunteer steps up.
It feels like I just got here and people are already fleeing. I get that a lot, especially after I've had some french onion soup (re:screen name), but I haven't had any lately. ::) :P
Childish funnies aside, Jon please don't quit. If you don't want to read or moderate the forum for blood pressure and/or quality of life reasons, fine. Please keep the maintenance going until a qualified replacement comes along. If the forum dies (once again if I understand the groups history) then let it be because it self destructed, not because (said months and years from now) "We used to have a forum, but Jon quit, and it folded."
Thanking you in advance Jon, for any reconsideration on your part.
(Can I get second?...anybody...anybody? {well, no not really anybody, Alan, just for now (https://ridemsta.com/mstaforums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vectorstock.com%2Fcomposite%2F237243%2Fhush-emoticon-vector.jpg&hash=63dcd27a2ac6678c6eb21c46aacf7866842bb385) :-X Please.})
Post by: RIDEMYST on May 02, 2015, 04:41:29 PM
I started this thread as a constructive dialog to help improve member participation. I'm concerned I've created negative feelings towards the forum and more so people that donate so much of their personal time. -JEP-
Sent by using these little bitty keys on my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: VersysRider on May 02, 2015, 07:26:14 PM
My statements have nothing to do with the thread itself. Also, GSRider2Up's statements are not the sole reason, they just helped me make the decision much easier. Here's the ugly truth...A few days ago I received 2 different emails from 2 different members that more or less attacked my integrity and questioned my capabilities to be a volunteer for this club. Keep in mind, I've been doing this for the club for 8+ years and served on the EC as well, along with other numerous volunteer activities along the way. I proceeded to send out my resignation to the EC, not just from my volunteer duties but from the club as well. After an email exchange from a couple of EC members I agreed to continue to update the website, with some stipulations, one being I will no longer support the forum and the other was that my email be removed as the main contact for the club. With my email being the one that the contact us functions on the forum and website goes through, every complaint and bitch goes through me and is generally directed at me. After 8 years of this, I'm done, it wears on a person after awhile and it wasn't what I signed up for when I volunteered to do this. I have reached the point where I can no longer bite my tongue, and that doesn't represent the club well. So my decision was to remove myself.
Out of 1700 members, there are 5 or so that are the issue. This is well known to most of the club volunteers. The ones I have issue with have no doubt who they are as they have received a reply to their emails in the last couple of days. These would probably be considered unprofessional for a club representative. I was speaking on behalf of myself and not the MSTA. Know that I am not the only volunteer that has resigned over this type of crap, and I doubt that I will be the last. This has been an ongoing problem for many years.
For the most part, volunteering for the club is a rewarding and enjoyable experience. I've made a lot of friends along the way. But there comes a time when a person decides they've had enough. I've had enough. Will I continue to be a MSTA member? Odds are yes, but I may take a break for a bit. Will I speak badly about the club? Never! This is really one of the best motorcycle clubs around.
Have no fear, the forum software will run fine for quite some time without any interaction. There is maintenance that will eventually need to be done, I'm sure someone will volunteer to take care of it.
Here's a plea to the handful that are a pain in the ass. Think before you send that email to someone who is volunteering to help build a club for you to enjoy. Are you being belligerent? If so, don't send it. Have you sent the email about the same subject before and gotten a reply? Yes? Quit beating a dead horse. Don't send it. Have you offered reasonable potential solutions? No? Don't send it. And also, if you are not willing to step up and help out, don't expect to get exactly what you want. The are many volunteers in the club, by percentage it's probably the highest of any. Just about every interaction you have with the MSTA requires a volunteer, even getting fed at an event. Show some respect to those volunteers, without them you don't have a club to bitch about.
I'll most likely be scolded for this post, but it needed to be said.
Please continue on with this post as I said before. There are constructive thoughts here and hopefully some constructive solutions will come from it. The post itself is not an issue.
Post by: GSRider2Up on May 02, 2015, 08:09:58 PM
I'm actually one who is sorry to see Jon leave the web presence. From the beginning when I was asked to help out of the website content, I was very much in support of Jon's efforts. Many of you probably aren't aware, but I put in somewhere near 60 hours of work updating member profiles and other MSTA web content only to have that work flushed away within a couple weeks when the club moved to a new web technology. Even after that, I was in support of Jon. I had a very long and successful career in IT and made suggestions to Jon and the EC. All were rebuffed. Some of our web and forum outages might have been avoided - who is to say. I volunteered to chair a MSTA web/electronic presence board and this also was rebuffed. Over the years Jon and my relationship has gone down hill and sometimes has popped up on the Forum. I have been asked over the last couple years if I would have an interest working on the web presence and I can honestly say, that at one point in time I would have been honored to do so again, but my relationship with the club has slipped and my life style and travel would not allow me to even if I wanted to.
Like Jon, with the history of web issues and incidents that have happened to us at MSTA events, Lynn and I will have question whether we continue to be members.
Post by: Michael Snyder on May 04, 2015, 04:29:41 PM
Now why doesn't the forum get used more often
Its not unique and offers no identity. There is little information or resources other than direct MSTA stuff and unless you are "in the club" there is no benefit to coming here. I am huge believer in the forum and check it almost everyday via tapatalk there is very little I want to get involved with topic wise. Why,not because I don't want to know about events or raffles or mods or what not, there is just nothing new and what there is offers very little in the way of information. I can get more information about specific bikes from bike specific forums or groups and that goes for almost any of the topics. So unless I am planning to attend a specific event or interested in a specific program there is not much point in posting just for the sake of posting.
The forum however is (well can be) extremely useful in a marketing type environment when it comes to events and programs. That however takes the event coordinator to post answers and provide information.There are couple of folks that do well at this Brick comes to mind and its nice to see.
Jim, you said you think its a good way to keep up with other members and that is so true however one of the things about the MSTA and it is still true today unfortunately is it is very much a "clicky" society. People make friends tend to socialize with those they have the most in common with and often (not always) those are hard groups to penetrate. Point being those small groups will tend to keep in touch via email, phone, facebook etc and there is not much need for another avenue. Sorry but it's true. The club has tried over the years to dispel and make that tendency go away with the MAP program for one but since the majority of new members are a result of old members bringing them into the fold there is not much use.
There is value here and can be great resource for sure but honestly it offers less than most forums when it comes to content and entertainment. So how do you fix that find a niche unique to the MSTA and sport touring lifestyle that no one else offers and promote the crap out of it. "If you build it they will come"
Post by: Landon on May 04, 2015, 05:55:37 PM
I don't blame anyone for not wanting to be a part of it.
Post by: Michael Snyder on May 04, 2015, 06:29:27 PM
Sent from Galaxy S5 via Tapatalk
Post by: DirtFlier on May 04, 2015, 09:08:01 PM
I appreciate all that you've done for the club over the many years that you've worked on the website.
Tosh
Post by: stevegrab on May 05, 2015, 07:09:17 PM
I don't do Facebook.Me neither, and I'm not going to start just because its the way to attract younger people. If it becomes required for all state directors and asisstants you're going to find many new positions opening up.
To Marty's point, I think the MSTA is different things to different people. To some it is only the local group, they do local rides, breakfast, meetings and other social gatherings. They rarely go to an MSTA sanctioned event, or know any members outside the local area (except maybe from other MSTA publications, website, forum, FB page). Then there are those that primarily see it as a national club and do most of their participation at events. They don't do a lot of local rides or other things (sometimes there isn't a local group, or not close enough, they're not aware or just too busy. Some members to both local and regional/national events.
Sorry to see things go down the toilet in this thread, and to hear that Jon has stepped down. I know that this has been a big job for him, and know that he's taken some grief in the past. Heck I've probably posted my share of complaints. But one thing I've always tried to do, thank people for their work, and keep in mind they are volunteers when asking for things. As Jon said offer to help, offer alternatives.
I hope we can get more participation in the forum, but from what I'm experiencing locally participation is down across the board. Weekend rides, events, social gatherings, people are either spread to thin or are just not interested in riding or the club anymore.
Post by: Patmo on May 05, 2015, 07:28:25 PM
I agree with all your other points....well stated.
Post by: stevegrab on May 05, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
Steve....to your point about Facebook. I can't see it ever being a requirement for anyone to participate. The club does have a Facebook "page" and anyone that decides to join the "group" can post things on it and will receive updates as part of their own "news feed". It's takes virtually no maintinence and is extremely easy to use, especially from mobile devices. Which is probably the reason that it is so popular with younger people.Pat,
I agree with all your other points....well stated.
I meant for the volunteers being required. Somebody mentioned "every state having a FB page and updating it regularly" well that requires a local volunteer to do that. Its hard enough finding people to be state directors, do state web sites, etc.
My basic point on FB is that for some people once they start using it a lot, they just stop using other things (forums, email, etc.) It becomes their GO TO place for almost everything. Just like email changed how many people no longer send letters, or make as many phone calls.
Post by: Patmo on May 06, 2015, 07:37:07 AM
Somebody mentioned "every state having a FB page and updating it regularly" well that requires a local volunteer to do that.
Actually, No it doesn't. The "page" is unlike a website with a forum. Think of it as more of a bulletin board where everyone has access to post up whatever they want. Facebook itself moniters it and will take down anything that it deems inapproiate, and deal with the poster as it sees fit (including banning the poster from Facebook if it thinks it's necessary). There is never any maintence that anyone from the MSTA must do, because the MSTA is set up as an "open" group page. Once someone "joins" the group they can then set up events, post pictures, share links, post stories, and comment on any other posts that appear there. So it's really a group membership controlled and driven form of communication.
And that's the key......communication. Websites, forums, Facebook, Twitter, even the STAReview.......they are all just different forms and methods of communication. Some people like staying informed about what is happening in the club, and not just what is happening in their local area. Others might not care about what is happening in Texas,, or Ohio, or Florida, etc., but want to know what is happening in their community. Some people are comfortable with using the Internet for this, and some are not. Facebook, and this forum, are just ways for the club to reach out to new people and keep the current members better informed. They are tools that we can utilize to inform, and they are also tools that others can use to get informed. Club meetings. Newsletters, phone calls, emails, etc. are other methods. Everyone should feel free to use the methods that they are most comfortable with, and feel no pressure to use ones they don't like.
Post by: stevegrab on May 06, 2015, 02:02:25 PM
I'm just not crazy (as a volunteer at the local level) with any requirement for how we communicate. There was talk one time of forcing all the Yahoo groups, local web sites and such to move to the MSTA forum community. I wasn't thrilled with that and said then that I can say that in our local area it would result in much reduced communication. The simplicity of a Yahoo group as an email list cannot be done in the forum. I know Jon has done a lot to promote it and provided info on following topics, but it just isn't the same, and doesn't work for our needs.
I do agree with marty that having all the communication spread out over many things (FB, MSTA forum, Google+, local web site or email lists and our official communication STAReview) is a problem. And I think it has resulted in a more splintered and clicky membership.
Ok off my soap box and back to work.
Post by: DallasBMWRider on October 19, 2016, 02:28:14 PM
As for the FB approach, folks that say they will never do FB remind me of those same folks that said, "I'll never do email". Hard to believe now. That's all well and good, but you're living in the past and the dark ages. Social media is the future. The Yamaha FB forums I'm on, and there are two I use, are active all the time with all kinds of great info and ideas readily available. I also joined a and fjr .com group, where you log in. I never use it.
I hate to admit this now, but we were all better in touch with the old micapeak email program that Vic set up and ran for us. It was antiquated and old fashioned, but it worked to push out info to members. And it gave Vic something to do. ;)
Post by: DirtFlier on October 19, 2016, 05:59:47 PM
[As for the FB approach, folks that say they will never do FB remind me of those same folks that said, "I'll never do email". Hard to believe now. That's all well and good, but you're living in the past and the dark ages. Social media is the future.]
I agree completely. :-)
Post by: stevegrab on October 19, 2016, 06:10:56 PM
I've said I won't have Facebook and I won't. It is not the same as email, not even close. This view that some have that all things must be on FB or want to do it all on FB ignores that there is still this vast world called the internet, FB hasn't replaced that.
As for Yahoo groups, yes they are great tools and ours for NE Ohio is still going and doing its job.
Social media may be the future, but there's still lots of life in the WWW/internet/email.