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Main Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: touringman on June 25, 2017, 10:20:17 PM

Title: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: touringman on June 25, 2017, 10:20:17 PM
Hey All, our recent trip to Star exposed some shortcomings with my CTX700. I've cured most of the ground clearance and other problems that bothered me about the bike, and the new Seth Lamm seat is killer comfortable. However, if your ride only has 50+ horsepower, and you loose 20% of that at high altitudes, it's kinda a bummer. I was looking for pedals to help the poor bike out a little! I don't have need for a great amount of power, and I can generally keep up with much more powerful bikes here in the relatively low country. How many more times will I need to worry about high altitudes in my lifetime, probably not a lot! Any excuse is valid to peruse a new bike though, as you know. Conventional wisdom about the most modern and prestigious bikes doesn't phase me at all. After all, we all know I can be scooter trash! All this said, I have an interest in the BMW f800gt, the Suzuki GSX 650f, and perhaps the Yamaha FZ6R. I'd also like to know who has any experience with these, as well as the older BMW 800ST. Please feed my information bank! Basically 75 to 90 HP, and 40 to60 ft. Lb. of torque is the target area. Please let me know what you think! Thanks in advance, Syd
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: Patmo on June 26, 2017, 06:52:06 AM
Honda CBR650F

Yamaha FZ or FJ 09

Suzuki GSX-F750

My FZ6 definitely lost some power at the higher altitudes in Colorado, but was still OK, but I don't think that the Fz6R has the same power, and it is heavier because of the full fairing.  But as you say, how often are we going to be riding at 8000+ feet?
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: PYG RYDR on June 26, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
Hey Buddy:


http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scooters/xciting500iabssii/index.html


(https://ridemsta.com/mstaforums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kymcousa.com%2Fshowroom%2Fscooters%2Fxciting500iabssii%2FxcitingRi-Studio.jpg&hash=2982b4c0e39e9f3e478992127c83df5665b01fc3)
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: africord on June 26, 2017, 10:38:22 AM
Patmo has given you a good list of light-weight sporty mounts that could tour. I wasn't that familiar with the CTX700 so I checked the specs. The wheelbase is out in the same range as large STs and the seat height is in the same space as a lot of cruisers, which explains the ground clearance problem. Given your lifetime mileage, I'm guessing you are looking for a bike that is lighter weight. Two bikes that will stretch your envelope of choices, and perhaps be eliminated for other reasons, would be the VStrom 650 and the Indian Scout 60. The Scout will have clearance issues, high fuel consumption (compared to the CTX), and a bit more weight. The seat is significantly taller on the VStrom. Both are in the weight and power range of the bikes you are considering. My personal ride, a 2002 VFR800 is about 100 pounds heavier than the CTX and more power than your target.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: touringman on June 26, 2017, 08:44:59 PM
Thanks Pat, Galen, and Africord for your replies! Your suggestions are on target Pat, and there are a couple of suggestions I hadn't thought of. The reasons the GSX650f appeals to me are the 85 horsepower, reasonable torque, and a 30.3 inch seat height, not to mention the reasonable price. The V-Strom is one of the best bikes on the planet as far as I'm concerned. I owned an '06and a 2012. They were both great, but taller and top heavy. Did I mention the 30.3 inch seat height of the GSX650F? The CTX700that I own has undergone a lot of customization in the corner clearance, and now offers great comfort and sufficient clearance. I can live with the power usually, and may get over this now that I'm back down to earth! Anybody know where I can find a turbo for the CTX? Galen, are you trying to totally relegate me to scooter trash?😄 You know I already have two. Thanks for the input, Syd
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: HawkGTRider on June 26, 2017, 09:47:33 PM
With my 45hp '07 BMW F650GS (thumper), on two occasions during STAR I had the experience of rolling on the throttle all the way to the stop without having much, if anything, happen. But the rest of the truth is that it was ok even at that. I've gotten used to sub-50hp bikes, and that's what you'll find dominating my garage. They've taken me all over the country including one year in the Iron Butt Rally, a bunch of STARs and other HSTA/MSTA events, and tons of day to day riding.


If we'd all concentrate on being better riders of the small(ish) bikes in our garages, we'd find we don't need all that silly wasted hp that most of the time never gets used. That's just my opinion.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: Colorado Rob on June 27, 2017, 01:53:13 AM
Syd-if you liked the VStrom, but it was a little bit tall and heavy, how about one of the new Suzuki SV650 standards.....lighter, lower seat height, same great motor. A 90 degree L-twin is a sweet motor-lots of mid-range and it makes beautiful music too. Just ask the guy who owns one. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I plan on doing a lot of riding above 8,000 ft. :)
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: Patmo on June 27, 2017, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: HawkGTRider on June 26, 2017, 09:47:33 PM


.......we don't need all that silly wasted hp


Blasphemy!   Mother of Blessed Acceleration please forgive him!

🙏🏁😄
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: PYG RYDR on June 27, 2017, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: touringman on June 26, 2017, 08:44:59 PM
Thanks Pat, Galen, and Africord for your replies! Your suggestions are on target Pat, and there are a couple of suggestions I hadn't thought of. The reasons the GSX650f appeals to me are the 85 horsepower, reasonable torque, and a 30.3 inch seat height, not to mention the reasonable price. The V-Strom is one of the best bikes on the planet as far as I'm concerned. I owned an '06and a 2012. They were both great, but taller and top heavy. Did I mention the 30.3 inch seat height of the GSX650F? The CTX700that I own has undergone a lot of customization in the corner clearance, and now offers great comfort and sufficient clearance. I can live with the power usually, and may get over this now that I'm back down to earth! Anybody know where I can find a turbo for the CTX? Galen, are you trying to totally relegate me to scooter trash?😄 You know I already have two. Thanks for the input, Syd

On Scooters-love you Syd!  I know how much you love your scooters and threw that in for consideration.

Syd, probably 99% of the time your CTX700 serves your needs very well and probably love it.  But riding in high altitudes with other riders at a spirited pace, got you thinking and longing for another bike. 

But now back home and 99% of the time you will be happy with your CTX700.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: stevegrab on June 27, 2017, 09:52:44 AM
Quote from: HawkGTRider on June 26, 2017, 09:47:33 PM
With my 45hp '07 BMW F650GS (thumper), on two occasions during STAR I had the experience of rolling on the throttle all the way to the stop without having much, if anything, happen. But the rest of the truth is that it was ok even at that. I've gotten used to sub-50hp bikes, and that's what you'll find dominating my garage. They've taken me all over the country including one year in the Iron Butt Rally, a bunch of STARs and other HSTA/MSTA events, and tons of day to day riding.


If we'd all concentrate on being better riders of the small(ish) bikes in our garages, we'd find we don't need all that silly wasted hp that most of the time never gets used. That's just my opinion.
I agree we don't all need 200HP superbikes or would be able to use that power, but sub 50HP bikes? No thanks...my first bike (98 Suzuki Bandit 600) had about 80HP, next bike was a CBR600F4, with about 90. Of my stable now the Ninja 650R is the lowest with about 70 HP. The VFR and Sprint are both around 100HP.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: TN2Wheeler on June 27, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Another vote here for the SV650 or if you can stand the garish paint job, the Gladius. You already know you love the motor in the DL650 - the SV adds another thousand rpm to top of the power band without giving up any of the sweet roll-on roll-off torque.  And it lops off about 100lbs of weight. A little wondscreen, a decent seat, some bar risers and maybe peg relocation (if desired) and you have a very capable sub 400lb sport tourer. We had 2 at one time (we have owned 4 total) and I loved the motor but at  6'2" the cockpit was a little tight so that I replaced mine with a DL650 for the larger ergos. But that was my only complaint. Great bike!

Some will say old-school.  I say there's nothing wrong with old-school if it does the job for you.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: Colorado Rob on June 27, 2017, 05:04:58 PM
And no need to tolerate the hideous Gladius styling anymore-the new SV650's look just like the old ones.....just a nice standard motorcycle.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: HawkGTRider on June 27, 2017, 10:53:34 PM
Quote from: Patmo on June 27, 2017, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: HawkGTRider on June 26, 2017, 09:47:33 PM


.......we don't need all that silly wasted hp


Blasphemy!   Mother of Blessed Acceleration please forgive him!

🙏🏁😄

Please forgive me...I'm so embarrassed.
Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: touringman on June 28, 2017, 11:27:04 AM
Thanks guys, and, much as I hate to admit it, Galen is probably right. I owned a 1999 blue SV back in the day, and enjoyed riding it immensely. That said, I enjoyed it most as strictly a mountain or curvy road bike. I didn't think about touring on it. My ride has to get me wherever I'm going in comfort, as well as hang with guys like Norm and Doug when we get there. I love the SV, but it's possible the GSX650F would be a measurably better bike to tour on. I went to bikez.com to compare the CTX with the SV, and I will try to print the results below. At the bottom you will see which color represents which bikes. This is admittedly a thin survey, as there were only three reviews listed for each bike so far, but I was somewhat surprised by the results. I'm at my legal limit in terms of bike numbers, so maybe I should sell a scooter, keep the CTX, and buy a gsx650f? ??? :-\


      (https://www.bikez.com/image/bikez.png)  (https://www.bikez.com/main/index.php)       SPECS · PICS · REVIEWS · RATING          <ins><ins></ins></ins>   
(https://www.bikez.com/image/headingwings.gif) 2016 Suzuki SV650 rating
 Engine performance, reliability, maintenance costs, etc. rated by riders
(https://www.bikez.com/pictures/suzuki/2016/sv650.jpg)
2016 Suzuki SV650 rated as  60.4 out of 100.0  based on 3 ratings. Picture credits - Suzuki
2016 Suzuki SV650 (https://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/suzuki_sv650_2016.php) [/t][/t][/c]
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Below is the riders' rating of the 2016 Suzuki SV650 motorcycle. Buying a bike begins at Bikez! Compare the strengths and weaknesses of this bike with others before you decide on your future bike. Do you have an opinion about the engine performance, reliablity, racing capabilities, touring capabilities, repair and maintenance cost, accident risk, etc? Your fellow riders will value your rating of this bike. We also use the ratings to list the Riders' motorcycle of the year (https://www.bikez.com/motorcycleoftheyear/index.php). This motorbike has been rated by 3 persons.

(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteHead.gif)
Overall rating:
(Details below)[/t][/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 60.4
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 67.9
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 64.2
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 61.2
<ins><ins><ins></ins></ins></ins>
[/t]
Detailed rating(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteHead.gif)
Engine performance:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 67.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 73.3
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 68.5
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 64.5
Reliability and problem-free driving:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 71.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 79.9
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 68.7
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 64.6
Fun-factor:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 71.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 73.3
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 71.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 66.8
Value for money:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 67.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 83.2
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 67.4
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 63.6
Repair and maintenance costs:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 50.5
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 76.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 60.5
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 58.4
Design and look:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 71.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 70.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 70.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 66.2
Offroad capabilities:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 30.1
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 40.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 47.7
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 51.1
Racing track capabilities:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 50.5
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 43.3
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 59.4
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 55.0
Touring capabilities:[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 50.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 73.3
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 63.0
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 60.0
Low accident risk:
(excellent=low risk)[/t]
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 74.4
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 66.6
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) 65.2
 (https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) 61.7
Bar explanation(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarMain.gif) 2016 Suzuki SV650
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarComp.gif) 2016 Honda CTX700D
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarCatAvg.gif) Average for naked bikes
(https://www.bikez.com/image/VoteBarAvg.gif) Average for all bikes

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Title: Re: New Tœ Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: touringman on June 28, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
The chart didn't transfer very well, but you can still see what it's saying if you look closely. The SV is red, and the CTX is the blue. The headers of the categories are very faint, but I hope you can distinguish them. Overall, it looks like the CTX is probably a better bike for my purposes. Syd
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: TrophyRider on June 30, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Try a Versys 650 LT. Jon SR is pretty short and gets along fine on one. I loved my Versys and still wish I had kept it. I'm sure Jon SR can be convinced (a beer or two, no Keystone, he's not Bill) to let you take a short test ride.


Jay
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: brider on July 01, 2017, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: TrophyRider on June 30, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Try a Versys 650 LT. Jon SR is pretty short and gets along fine on one. I loved my Versys and still wish I had kept it. I'm sure Jon SR can be convinced (a beer or two, no Keystone, he's not Bill) to let you take a short test ride.


Jay

Hey now!  I resemble that remark!  I have seen him drink one in a pinch.
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: touringman on July 01, 2017, 11:13:42 AM
That sounds like a plan to me Jay!! I'd love to take a ride on it. I wouldn't offer a Keystone. Do you know if he likes PBR? ;D Don't worry, we'll sort the beer thing out. Are you guys coming to Big Lynn?
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: TrophyRider on July 02, 2017, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: touringman on July 01, 2017, 11:13:42 AM
That sounds like a plan to me Jay!! I'd love to take a ride on it. I wouldn't offer a Keystone. Do you know if he likes PBR? ;D Don't worry, we'll sort the beer thing out. Are you guys coming to Big Lynn?
A PBR would probably meet his standards. They're not high, but there are standards. :)
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: TrophyRider on July 02, 2017, 11:13:02 AM
Quote from: brider on July 01, 2017, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: TrophyRider on June 30, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Try a Versys 650 LT. Jon SR is pretty short and gets along fine on one. I loved my Versys and still wish I had kept it. I'm sure Jon SR can be convinced (a beer or two, no Keystone, he's not Bill) to let you take a short test ride.


Jay

Hey now!  I resemble that remark!  I have seen him drink one in a pinch.
Must have been a momentary lapse in judgement since there is no way it was the last "beer" available on earth.  :o
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: stevegrab on July 04, 2017, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: TrophyRider on July 02, 2017, 11:13:02 AM
Quote from: brider on July 01, 2017, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: TrophyRider on June 30, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Try a Versys 650 LT. Jon SR is pretty short and gets along fine on one. I loved my Versys and still wish I had kept it. I'm sure Jon SR can be convinced (a beer or two, no Keystone, he's not Bill) to let you take a short test ride.


Jay

Hey now!  I resemble that remark!  I have seen him drink one in a pinch.
Must have been a momentary lapse in judgement since there is no way it was the last "beer" available on earth.  :o
Last one available and cold?  I used to say anything cold and free but I've developed higher standards too.
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: JimRRides on August 01, 2017, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: stevegrab on June 27, 2017, 09:52:44 AM
Quote from: HawkGTRider on June 26, 2017, 09:47:33 PM
With my 45hp '07 BMW F650GS (thumper), on two occasions during STAR I had the experience of rolling on the throttle all the way to the stop without having much, if anything, happen. But the rest of the truth is that it was ok even at that. I've gotten used to sub-50hp bikes, and that's what you'll find dominating my garage. They've taken me all over the country including one year in the Iron Butt Rally, a bunch of STARs and other HSTA/MSTA events, and tons of day to day riding.


If we'd all concentrate on being better riders of the small(ish) bikes in our garages, we'd find we don't need all that silly wasted hp that most of the time never gets used. That's just my opinion.
I agree we don't all need 200HP superbikes or would be able to use that power, but sub 50HP bikes? No thanks...my first bike (98 Suzuki Bandit 600) had about 80HP, next bike was a CBR600F4, with about 90. Of my stable now the Ninja 650R is the lowest with about 70 HP. The VFR and Sprint are both around 100HP.
At one extreme I have a "massaged" 2009 R1 that dynoed at 194 hp, and at the other end I have a Zuma 125 that rocks at about 9 hp (yep, single digit). I own a couple of other bikes as well, different missions/different bikes. I suppose at altitude I'd lose 20-30 percent of the Zuma's power, so then instead of 60 mph top speed (yep, my stock Zuma will hit 60) I'd be stuck with 40 mph or so. I ride the heck out of the Zuma around here, rarely roll out one of the big bikes for anything around town. Quick, fast, big trunk under the seat, park just about anywhere, avg. more than 80 mpg, what's not to like? Proud to be scooter trash, I am. If you can work the bike/ride why worry about the big/little hp number?

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: JimRRides on August 01, 2017, 12:23:42 AM
Added anecdote, I have a riding buddy who owned a Ducati 1198 and a Suzuki DL 1000, and he often showed up on the SV650 he bought for his wife. We took some big trips with him riding the SV650 and he loved it. He found it relatively easy to lower it for his wife w/o compromising handling. I have no idea what hp/torque was for it but he or his wife would easily hang with us no matter what we were riding. Maybe you could gap her in a long straight but she'd be right off your back tire before you exited the next corner.

 I'd vote for an SV650, Syd.

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: HawkGTRider on August 01, 2017, 08:33:22 AM
Randy Logan and I have ridden together for a BUNCH of miles over the years. He sold his big bike when his spouse was certain she'd never again be a passenger and bought an SV650. After a few years, he traded that for a V-Strom, and has had several of them since.

For health reasons, he's now quit riding, but he always rode the hound out of those V-Stroms. And the only time he had trouble keeping up with anything was a trip across Texas where we encountered near 40 mph headwinds. My bigger bike, a BMW R1100RS, shrugged off the wind, maintained the 80 mph pace we were doing, and my fuel economy dropped from a typical 42-44 to 37 mpg. To maintain our pace, Randy had to downshift and rev the heck out of the V-Strom leading to his fuel economy dropping from mid 50s to the upper 20s! Other than that, his V-Stroms were great bikes and took him wherever he wanted to go at any speed and road condition you can imagine.
Title: Re: New To Me Motorcycle Considerations
Post by: stevegrab on August 01, 2017, 02:02:31 PM
Different strokes for different folks. SV650s are nice bikes and probably more in the 65-75 HP range.

I've always been more of a recreational rider than a commuting rider, but can see the appeal of the scooter for daily getting around.