STAR...why?

[STLTHMSTA]

Steve, I'd be happy to share the name of Two Wheel Inn on Tallulah RD. (I think that's129) just south of Robbinsville, NC 28771 proper. We have 2 single beds and a garage. Very friendly folks and obviously bike oriented. 828-479-4248.
They have a website (you guessed it twowheelinn.com) if ya'd like to see some pics. It would be cool if several other folks made this a post-STAR grouping for some fun riding in the area. I'm rooming with Dale Hall again this year and he has never been, soooooooo I said we can fix that. After some riding on Friday we will part company with he going south to FL and I will return to OH. See ya there or sooner, TM


Tell 'em I sent ya!

[stevegrab]

Thanks Tom will check them out.

[OSU55]

Jim,

I can understand your side but if STAR doesn't have some enticements for non-riding, family members, we would have far few people attending.  There are some members who still use STAR or part of STAR as a family vacation which I think is great. 

Tosh

Is it a vacation with motorcycle riding as an activity, or using vacation to go motorcycle riding. I can always take the family on a vacation and do what everyone else does. For me, rallies, national or otherwise, should be about motorcycles and riding, the opportunity to see old friends and meet new, and motorcycle riding, and great, curvy, twisty roads made for motorcycles, and riding motorcycles on those roads. Did I say they should be about riding?


Since these nationals pick bad locations so the hotel has a big banquet room and lots of restaurants within walking distance, and require monotonous boring riding to get to the "good stuff", and most attendees approach them as vacations to do "normal" things, with riding as an add-on activity, I have abandoned them in favor of the weekend rallies that are in much better riding locations. Back in the late 80's and 90's both HSTA and COG national/regional rallies were more motorcycle and riding focused and more enjoyable for me. Focusing on "number of attendees" is too corporate for me - I deal with that every day at work. Getting out on a bike is about getting away from all that.

[Patmo]

You’ll probably have to ride about 2-5 miles from the Bristol hotel to get to good stuff on a couple of the routes.

The hotel in LaCrosse was maybe 5 miles through town to get to good stuff.  It’ll be about the same next year.  Wasn’t far in Colorado Springs either. Was a little farther in Springfield and the last Lexington, KY STAR, but I still didn’t think it was real bad. Not on a par with some of the regional rallies, I’ll grant you that., but certainly not bad. 

Easy access to good riding roads is one of the top considerations when choosing a STAR location.  We’ve decided against some locations just because they didn’t offer it.

STAR events have just become too large to be held in small venues in small towns.  The other alternative would be to hold them in large country resorts, but then you have to deal with the whole room cost thing, as they command a premium price during the summer months.


There just aren’t that many locations in the US that offer everything we want, at a price we can afford, but we keep searching for them.

[stevegrab]

The location selected is always a compromise between good local riding and a venue that can accommodate us. Even if we didn't have any seminars or meetings, and didn't need a banquet facility we still need 100-150 rooms or more. And having plenty of places you can walk to for dinner is pretty important when we put our crowd in a spot with many looking for dining at the same time. (A limited number of options, let alone a lone hotel restaurant are easily overwhelmed at regional rallies.)

Some STARs have been located in placed that required a bit of a slog thru bad traffic, or must use nearby crowded interstate. Most are not bad and within 5-10 minutes you're on some good roads.

Lexington was probably one of the biggest cities I recall us using, Asheville is another. Neither were great, but it was still a lot better than my local riding which usually requires about 30min of slab to get out of metropolis, and another 30min of boring stuff to get into the good roads.

I've ridden thru Bristol a couple of times, didn't seem that big to me. Probably more like Staunton VA than Lexington.

BTW Nobody is focusing on "number of attendees" for STAR, they don't pick a location trying to get the most people. A couple decades ago we had around 2000 members, these days closer to 1000 (maybe its 1200 or so I forget). Even with just 1000 we need to put on a STAR that as many can attend as possible. It would not be fair to hold STAR somewhere that limits us to 150-200 members. (One of the largest regional events Mail Pouch Fly By had numbers well over 100 many time.)

[OSU55]

"You’ll probably have to ride about 2-5 miles from the Bristol hotel to get to good stuff on a couple of the routes.The hotel in LaCrosse was maybe 5 miles through town to get to good stuff.  It’ll be about the same next year.  Wasn’t far in Colorado Springs either."

I have ridden all those areas. We have very different definitions of "good stuff", which is fine, I'm not as easily entertained.

"BTW Nobody is focusing on "number of attendees" for STAR, they don't pick a location trying to get the most people. A couple decades ago we had around 2000 members, these days closer to 1000 (maybe its 1200 or so I forget)."

I get the exact opposite impression, so we agree to disagree. Wonder why membership has dropped ~50%? Two indicators I can think of: 1) the supposed best sport touring club raffling off a Goldwing. Sorry but that's the definition of sacrilegious. 2) More and more weekend/regional rallies are not requiring MSTA membership - wonder why? Could it be club officers and friends are self-serving and club membership is of little to no value unless you value the national rally?

The original thread question was "STAR WHY?"   No one has addressed "Is it a vacation with motorcycle riding as an activity, or using vacation to go motorcycle riding."  It's obviously the former, as  there are no indications of the latter. Otherwise attendance, a big hotel, and plenty of restaurants in walking distance wouldn't be defining factors for location.

[DirtFlier]

Motorcycle sales have been steadily dropping the past 10+ years as has membership in various riding clubs.  Yes, even HOG has seen a drop.  And some of the manufacturer sponsored clubs no longer exist.  The downturn goes way beyond the MSTA and whatever type of bike we decide to raffle at STAR. 

[STLTHMSTA]

Wow! Debbie Downer is among us. Whaaa-whaa-whaaaaaaa.  WTH Dude?? You need a few rides yourself ? Bored? Constipated? Little blue pill not working for you?? Geeeez!  I know, you're phishing', just trying to stir up the poop pot. Are you the reincarnate of "Warchild"?

Ok, you made it clear this might not be your cup of tea, so find the right one and drink it.  TM

[Patmo]

Much of what John has said I won't address, and I'll give him....as a new forum member with only 4 posts and a possibly a new MSTA member....the benefit of the doubt.  But there are few things he said that don't stand up to the FACTS.


Q...Why a Goldwing?
B...the short answer is because Honda all but insisted that we do so and made us such a deal that we would have had to been the stupidest people in the world to refuse it.  We have sold over $15,000 dollars worth of raffle tickets BEFORE STAR, so it seems to be a pretty popular choice with much of the membership. It certainly would not have been our 1st choice (shown by the fact that we have never raffled off one before), but its proving to be a wise choice.


Q....Why get rid of the membership requirement for attendance at ANY MSTA event.
A....No short answer here, as the answer is complicated.  I'll try to simplify it for you...


1st....as a now chartered BMWRA association club, we must allow any BMWRA member to attend ANY of our MSTA events...it's in the rules
2nd...(and this goes to your point about only valuing the STAR events)  We feel that the best way to GROW the club membership is to get people to experience the club events. The REGIONAL/LOCAL events are the best way to make that happen.  So, instead of telling people that they must 1st JOIN the club, and then they would be "allowed" to attend events, we think a better approach is to INVITE people to attend events, with no strings attached.  WE are confident that once people do attend them, and have the great time that we know they can have, they will want to keep attending them.  Along the way, we are hopeful that they will want to support the organization and will JOIN the club....not because that will "allow" them to attend the events, but because they WANT to SUPPORT the club....that makes for long term and not just temporary members.  AND...what if they never join the club and just keep attending events?  Well, doesn't that HELP the  Regional Events to be more successful?  Doesn't that help the local and state organizations in the long run?  What's wrong with that!?
3rd....Many members of the club have spent hundreds of hours over the last few years working on ideas for simplifying our regional/local events, and for ways to guide and support the coordinators of those events.....notice I said Regional-Local and not STAR.
STAR has historically drawn about the same % of members, no matter what the size of the club...25-30%.  When we had 2000 members STAR drew 400-500.  We are  now about 1100 and this STAR has about 300 signed up right now.  We recognize that the total number of attendees at regional events exceeds the total number of STAR attendees every year.  So we have placed an emphasis on those events.  The fact that there are new regional events taking place, and that attendance at many of the older events has stabilized seems to show that this approach is working.  Only time will tell for sure, but I'm encouraged.


Lastly...


Q....are the club officers and friends "self-serving"?
A....pistols at dawn?   Do you really want to start insulting people in your 4th post?  It usually takes quite a bit longer before people start doing that....


John....I don't know who you are other than your forum profile.  Which means you don't know me either.  Yet you seem to feel you can make a judgement like this?  Did you think I wouldn't find this insulting and just a little aggravating?  Not to mention totally incorrect?
 
If being an officer of any club where one volunteers their time, gets no pay, actually spends their own money for the "privilege" of getting to an event early so that they can spend time setting up.  Spends their own time and money to seek out places to hold those events.  Stays extra time to take things down and clean things up.  Has to personally guarantee some financial transactions and agreements. Spends their own money on such things as postage, printing, and travel expenses.  Gives up their riding time at the events so that they can stand over a grill and cook for people that were out riding.  (Jon Campbell stopped even bring a bike to Mail Pouch for many years)…..well, if doing all of those things and more makes someone "self-serving", then your definition of that term is different than mine. 


The officers and volunteers in this club have been doing all of these things for many many years, and they rarely get the appreciation they deserve.  For me, that's Ok.  I'm not doing what I'm doing with any ego or need for public support and acclimation.  But I think I will insist that I not be publicly insulted and accused of something like that. 


I think that you owe the officers, volunteers, and their friends a public apology.

[Paco Bulto]

As far as never raffling off a Gold Wing in a sport touring club, the GW has never been as close to a sport touring bike as the new one is.  After riding one, my impression is that it is closer to my ST1300 than to a GW I once had.


Have a nice day.

[RichGrab]

It's so refreshing (NOT) to see a newcomer be so nonchalant with their criticism. Maybe this isn't the right group for him.

[Paco Bulto]

As Rosanne Roseannadana used to say "you sound like a real fun guy". 

[NinjaBob]

We can take the criticism Steve and I think the EC welcomes OSU55's opinion! I think the EC is very open to everyone's opinion and doing a great job of making the most members happy as far as STAR is concerned. I did not think the roads in Vermont or Wisconsin were as good as roads in a lot of other STARs I have attended but I was very glad to visit these areas and found the venues to be delightful.  OSU55 you sound like a ride, eat, sleep, repeat kind of rider. Me too, but for me the eat and sleep  parts are important too( as well as neccesary).

[Patmo]

Bob...I agree.  We welcome opinions and constructive criticism is just part of the job. 


If someone favors the smaller events over a STAR, I certainly can understand why.  Honestly, I do to for the most part.  But I do like having STAR as an excuse to visit new places.  Probably never would have made it to LaCrosse if it wasn’t for having a STAR there.  Same is true with Vermont.  I guess everyone has their own reasons for attending or not attending a STAR.  The contentious of this thread seems to be people want both things....great riding (that’s close by!) and the opportunity to socialize with other members.  How much it being a new location is important is hard to gauge.  For some people that might be a major reason to attend, but for others it doesn’t matter.

Maybe we take a lot of things for granted about what people want out of a STAR,  but the main thing we have to go on when judging people’s wants and desires is the after STAR survey.  Unfortunately we don’t get a great rate of return on them, only about 1/3 are every returned.


It’s important that everyone have the chance to give their thoughts and opinions freely.  But let’s keep the tone friendly and free of judgment, accusation or personal attacks.

[Ohiomsta]

Well, it seems another turd has surfaced in the punch bowl. It's as predictable as the locust. A non volunteer bitching about what the volunteers are doing. Now it is ok to bitch about what a volunteer in the association is doing but you earn that right. Put in at least 20 years in volunteer jobs in the club and you earn the right to bitch a little. If you haven't done that than you need to just SHUT THE HELL UP!
Jon Sr.