STAR 2018 Location...where to go?

[NinjaBob]

It's been asked before, but I'll echo it: can anyone provide a list of attendance numbers for all the STARs? For accurate interpretation, it would also be useful to have the total membership numbers for each year, so you could look not only at absolute attendance but also percentage of membership, since that has been dwindling for some time now.

Does the membership director have historical data?

I maintain a web page of past STAR locations and info. Data is incomplete but we have attendance for many STARs including the first two in California. 131 in 1986 In Lake Taho and 181 in first Mammoth Lakes.  Not the second Mammoth lake but we have the group photo which gives a good idea of attendance for that year.
http://www.wfr-ridersclub.com/stars/stars.htm

[TN2Wheeler]

Hey Bob, I had forgotten about your web page. I added a link in the Events drop down on the main MSTA webpage to it.

Might be just my red/green color blindness but I have a hard time seeing the red stars on your map. For me it would be easier to see them if they were a more contrasting color - white, black, blue etc, something that's not even close to the colors on the background topo map. Thanks for posting!

Jim

[normkern]

This has been an excellent discussion so far. In response to comments about Colorado Springs being "Midwest," I think we have to look at East and West relative to where membership is concentrated, and that's what we have been doing.

Appreciated Brick's comments about California MSTA. It is certainly a dilemma that CA is separated from the rest of the membership by such a great distance.

Norm Kern

[NinjaBob]

Hey Bob, I had forgotten about your web page. I added a link in the Events drop down on the main MSTA webpage to it.

Might be just my red/green color blindness but I have a hard time seeing the red stars on your map. For me it would be easier to see them if they were a more contrasting color - white, black, blue etc, something that's not even close to the colors on the background topo map. Thanks for posting!

Jim

Thanks Jim. When I add the new star for Stratton Mountain I will see if I can change the colors of the stars.


Update: I have added a star for 2016 and changed them all to blue. Should help with the red/green colorblindness. Overall for me the contrast is good but the blue does not contast as well on the green background. I am open to suggestion. I will add the group photo when I get it and I have already added the date, venue and attendance to the database. I have 265 for attendance, correct me if I'm wrong.

[stevegrab]

When I joined HSTA California had one of the largest memberships of all states and they were very active. It seems that a few of the very active members died and no one stepped up. This is the death of an area. The roads in CA are FANTASTIC! And I had always wanted to attend one of the regional events there. But as you all know traveling from Ohio while still working is very difficult!
Now that I'm retired and have the time the left coast membership doesn't really host big regional events any more.
I never found a good way and love that you all are trying. I think y'all are doing a great job! Keep it up!


Let's Ride!
Brick

Back in those early days how many STAR were held in the extreme west? Say west of the western border of CO/NM? Ok thanks to NinjaBob's link I can see there were 3 in the first 10 years (86 & 91) and a third in 2004. Next furthest west STARs are Taos and Avon/Aspen.
I don't think reduced numbers or activity in CA is the issue with being able to have a STAR there, though attendance would probably be a bit better with a stronger CA group. But that the vast majority of members are in the east (of Mississippi River), so the further west you make it the further the trip for the masses. Even Rapid City in 2014 had very low numbers, compared to Avon 2012 or any STAR I attended in the east going back to 2001.
I agree with bcd, numbers for the past events, along with the membership number at that time would help show the percentage attending in different regions.

[bcd]

Thanks, Bob, that's a cool web page! It seems like someone in the club should have hard numbers to fill in where you have blanks. I wish I knew who to ask. I only have vague ideas of a couple of them being bigger than average.

[NinjaBob]

Thanks, Bob, that's a cool web page! It seems like someone in the club should have hard numbers to fill in where you have blanks. I wish I knew who to ask. I only have vague ideas of a couple of them being bigger than average.

Thanks Bryan. I think the only way to get the numbers might be the STARreviews.  At one time I had an intention of saving them all but after about 20 years or so I gave up on that. Roger Prince has provided me with many of the group pictures, I think he's been to more stars than anybody except Jim Girton. I'll ask Roger if he has any other Star details.

[Ohiomsta]

It's been asked before, but I'll echo it: can anyone provide a list of attendance numbers for all the STARs? For accurate interpretation, it would also be useful to have the total membership numbers for each year, so you could look not only at absolute attendance but also percentage of membership, since that has been dwindling for some time now.

Does the membership director have historical data?

I maintain a web page of past STAR locations and info. Data is incomplete but we have attendance for many STARs including the first two in California. 131 in 1986 In Lake Taho and 181 in first Mammoth Lakes.  Not the second Mammoth lake but we have the group photo which gives a good idea of attendance for that year.
http://www.wfr-ridersclub.com/stars/stars.htm


197 at the last Mammoth Lakes. Cal. Membership at that time was 250 or so and Ohio had more members at that STAR than Cal. It was poorly supported by the Cal. Membership. West coast STARs simply do not draw worthwhile numbers.
Jon Sr.

[STLTHMSTA]

Thanks for that webpage, that is cool. It lets you see a real perspective on the STAR situation. I went through the list and realized that I have been to 14 STARs since I joined in 1991. I think that's pretty good when I gotta work, deal with family, life getting in the way, etc. However, I have to hand it to Jim Girton who is the only person alive that has been to EVERY STAR!!!!
Clearly as this discussion has brought up, it ain't easy being a STAR coordinator. Not everyone will be happy and some will NEVER be happy.
I give my thanks to ALL who have ANYTHING to do with STAR planning. If I can't make it to a STAR because of location or some other reason, you will NOT hear me bitchin' unless I really wanted to go but couldn't.  Ride safe STAR gazers,  TM

[Tigger]

Okay, if  I may offer my 0.02... let's take a gazetteer or the Mad Maps or just plain a good map and draw two vertical lines, both running north to south. Those be the boundaries that for some reason, we want to inflict on ourselves. Next, let's spot the (say) 5 highest concentrations of good roads, per their path on that region on the map. Next, let's check that they actually have decent pavement for the most part and are not residential developments. That should give us some options.


As a side note, I do not know where the geographic restrictions East-West-Center came from. I know that for a real peachy riding location I would schlep hundreds, even over a thousand miles, whereas it will be a fight to drag me over to the next state if the roads suck. Doesn't matter where between the Atlantic and the Pacific.


Once we have that (and if we don't then the geographic restrictions should become a mute point), then we can look for a hotel that has 80-90 rooms available, and that is surrounded by similar hotels who will be only too happy to compete among themselves for a share of the bounty. If we insist on finding one single property that can host all of us, we screw ourselves on a few counts:


1. Such properties are few and far between, and tend to be secluded resorts like we had this year.
2. Said resort has no immediate competitor for our business and will offer only lip service to price accommodations.
3. Once the deal is signed, they have no incentive whatsoever to go above and beyond by providing convenience services.
4. We end up not patronizing small, local businesses, but rather big foreign hedge funds who own the mega-hotel-resorts.


I would like to know how many actual rooms our group rented this year. We may find out that there was no need to be exiled in an empty Eagle's nest and that 400 rooms is a pie in the sky. Instead of coming up with eye-popping numbers to negotiate a symbolic rate drop, I think that realistic numbers combined with natural competition between close-by hotels will yield a better result for everyone.

Lastly, if I understand well the 2018 geographic restrictions, they would mean mainly 3 choices:


1. Ozarks
2. Wisconsin/UP
3. Texas if we bend the western line a bit.

[DirtFlier]

TX can be extremely hot in late-June.  The last time we had STAR in TX it was in late-April to avoid the heat and I can't recall how that effected the head count.

[RichGrab]

Okay, if  I may offer my 0.02... let's take a gazetteer or the Mad Maps or just plain a good map and draw two vertical lines, both running north to south. Those be the boundaries that for some reason, we want to inflict on ourselves. Next, let's spot the (say) 5 highest concentrations of good roads, per their path on that region on the map. Next, let's check that they actually have decent pavement for the most part and are not residential developments. That should give us some options.


As a side note, I do not know where the geographic restrictions East-West-Center came from. I know that for a real peachy riding location I would schlep hundreds, even over a thousand miles, whereas it will be a fight to drag me over to the next state if the roads suck. Doesn't matter where between the Atlantic and the Pacific.


Once we have that (and if we don't then the geographic restrictions should become a mute point), then we can look for a hotel that has 80-90 rooms available, and that is surrounded by similar hotels who will be only too happy to compete among themselves for a share of the bounty. If we insist on finding one single property that can host all of us, we screw ourselves on a few counts:


1. Such properties are few and far between, and tend to be secluded resorts like we had this year.
2. Said resort has no immediate competitor for our business and will offer only lip service to price accommodations.
3. Once the deal is signed, they have no incentive whatsoever to go above and beyond by providing convenience services.
4. We end up not patronizing small, local businesses, but rather big foreign hedge funds who own the mega-hotel-resorts.


I would like to know how many actual rooms our group rented this year. We may find out that there was no need to be exiled in an empty Eagle's nest and that 400 rooms is a pie in the sky. Instead of coming up with eye-popping numbers to negotiate a symbolic rate drop, I think that realistic numbers combined with natural competition between close-by hotels will yield a better result for everyone.

Lastly, if I understand well the 2018 geographic restrictions, they would mean mainly 3 choices:


1. Ozarks
2. Wisconsin/UP
3. Texas if we bend the western line a bit.

Tigger, this was my first STAR so hopefully I'm not out of line. But, I heard attendance this year was around 250. If that's the case, at double occupancy that makes 125 rooms. I for one think having everyone staying in the same hotel promotes the integration, camraderie and mixing of people. If there are 2, 3 or 4 locations at which to stay, the club ends up with little cliques at different hotels, and members don't meet other people. With pretty much everyone staying at the Black Bear Lodge this year, I met so many people who I only knew as a face on Facebook or a handle on the Forum. As for patronizing local businesses, I did plenty of that at STAR in VT. Ate lunch at several small locally owned places, bought gas, beer and other snacks etc. from local businesses. The lunch ride was to a local bar (and the food was plentiful and good). So, there is plenty of opportunity to spend locally, and even staying in a large resort type place still pays staff (local people) for cleaning, cooking etc.

I'm with you on the roads. I live in mid-south Michigan and not a whole lot of twisties around. So, I don't mind going to OH, PA, NY for a good ride. And I'd love to go explore places like WI, TX, and points west. What I'm getting at I guess is, especially for a National Event, I think it is very important to have the majority of the attendees staying in the same place. Just my $0.02 worth. YMMV. (Now back to your regularly scheduled program.)   

[Ohiomsta]

Okay, if  I may offer my 0.02... let's take a gazetteer or the Mad Maps or just plain a good map and draw two vertical lines, both running north to south. Those be the boundaries that for some reason, we want to inflict on ourselves. Next, let's spot the (say) 5 highest concentrations of good roads, per their path on that region on the map. Next, let's check that they actually have decent pavement for the most part and are not residential developments. That should give us some options.


As a side note, I do not know where the geographic restrictions East-West-Center came from. I know that for a real peachy riding location I would schlep hundreds, even over a thousand miles, whereas it will be a fight to drag me over to the next state if the roads suck. Doesn't matter where between the Atlantic and the Pacific.


Once we have that (and if we don't then the geographic restrictions should become a mute point), then we can look for a hotel that has 80-90 rooms available, and that is surrounded by similar hotels who will be only too happy to compete among themselves for a share of the bounty. If we insist on finding one single property that can host all of us, we screw ourselves on a few counts:


1. Such properties are few and far between, and tend to be secluded resorts like we had this year.
2. Said resort has no immediate competitor for our business and will offer only lip service to price accommodations.
3. Once the deal is signed, they have no incentive whatsoever to go above and beyond by providing convenience services.
4. We end up not patronizing small, local businesses, but rather big foreign hedge funds who own the mega-hotel-resorts.


I would like to know how many actual rooms our group rented this year. We may find out that there was no need to be exiled in an empty Eagle's nest and that 400 rooms is a pie in the sky. Instead of coming up with eye-popping numbers to negotiate a symbolic rate drop, I think that realistic numbers combined with natural competition between close-by hotels will yield a better result for everyone.

Lastly, if I understand well the 2018 geographic restrictions, they would mean mainly 3 choices:


1. Ozarks
2. Wisconsin/UP
3. Texas if we bend the western line a bit.

Two problems, one: most members like to be at one hotel, two: 80 room hotels don't have a meeting room or catering for 250 to 400.
 

[HawkGTRider]

FWIW
My first STAR was in Helen GA. We were spead out in a bunch of different motels all over town, but there was a banquet hall where group meals were held. I don't remember if we had any seminars or not, but having a place for them might have been problematic as well as a central location for any vendors that wanted to participate. I'm not suggesting that we do something like that again, but is something that 'could' be considered.
I agree with Jon SR...we do like to be in one place and it's nice to have meeting rooms and catering facilities all together.

[RichGrab]

Echoing Jon Sr. and Geofrrey, those are probably the two biggest concerns - a banquet room that will sit 200-300 and catering to go with it. Heck, when it's just a weekend get together, sitting outside and having a burger or chicken is fine. But for an awards banquet, really need to be indoors and have facilities to accommodate the crowd. I doubt that not having those things is a deal breaker, but they are something that is a big plus.