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[Ride4MS]

I want everyone to know, that I was not complaining, but I want to make it better and easier for everyone, especially someone that might be new to the STAR so that they don't get disappointed and never come back.

I am also willing to be part of the solution and explain how I make routes and maps.
Does that mean that I am willing to put on a short seminar at STAR.  Yes.
I am also willing to help someone on the phone for these routes if they would like to contact me.

As far as break down and get a GPS.  I am on my 2nd Garmin for a car.  The last that I bought is less than 2 years old. 

But, Garmin does not recommend using a car version on a cycle with the vibration as well as the rain if it happens.
As much as I like it in a cage, using it many times per month, even on routes that I know, I just like riding without a GPS.
But, maybe in the future this old dog will change.

[Patmo]

Carl

I certainly appreciate your concern and your desire to make this STAR a great experience for everyone.  I’m going to try and help too.

I’ve printed out all of the PDF versions of the road routes and will be going through them.  I’ll try to come up with simple turn by turn instructions for them, using primarily the state route numbers.  However, that might mean having to eliminate parts of them, so as to make them less confusing so someone not using a GPS.  I’ll bring them along with me to STAR (along with a copy machine/printer that I was already bringing) and five out copies to the people that REALLY need them.

I’ll add this…..I used to attend TRISTAR without a GPS and every year I would get messed up on a route.  Once I got a GPS and loaded routes into it, I found myself on great roads that I never even knew existed.  I’d never go back to not having one again.  Worth every penny.

[stevegrab]

Pat I was in the same boat, recall having trouble following routes at a few events, Tri-STAR was one of them. I bought a cheap car GPS (Nuvi something) that I connected in a poor way initially, and over time got that setup better. But it was invaluable following routes at events, and then when traveling out west to new places it was great to have to find the hotels, gas, places to eat. Then I started doing my own routes in the GPS, often for after an event or the ride there and back. Over time I needed something better, and the screen was starting to develop glitches. I still use it some since the Zumo I have only has the one dock attached to the main touring bike.

Pre GPS I recall reviewing maps and turn by turn directions for the routes at events and just eliminating pieces I didn't think I could follow.

[HawkGTRider]

Having a route sheet which includes both road names and numbers is certainly desirable, but I have yet to see any software package that includes both. I used to create a route, download the turn-by-turn instructions from the software into an Excel file, and then tweak the instructions to fit a format that I liked better and would also include other info...like both names and numbers. But doing that was mind-numbingly tedious and it took an immense amount of time.

[Patmo]

I’ve found that the older version of Microsoft Street and Trips shows both street names and route numbers in their turn by turn instructions.  However, it also shows a lot of “extra” instructions, especially when state routes combine with each other for a period of time.  So it’s important to read those instructions carefully and ignore the ones not needed. 

I’m in the midst of going through the routes and coming up with S&T versions that I can use to give simple written instructions.

[Ride4MS]

We have been to only Springdale, Colorado Springs, La Crosse and Bristol for STARs.  We did not have those problems at any of those locations.  Maybe it would be good to ask the people that designed those routes what they used.

We rode two or three of the routes on our own at Springdale and were very easy to follow.  On others we followed, but the map was accurate as we had it in the tank bag to read to see where we were going.  I remember commenting as I looked at the map, and saying that across the Holler is a road that we will be on shortly.

The routes that I made for La Crosse, I didn't make all of them, were done with bing.com/maps and then typed out like in my previous attachment.  I did not drive the routes to verify, but spent a lot of time analyzing them on the computer.  More work, but well worth it.

[Patmo]

I’ve gotten through the first 4 routes now and here’s an observation….

It looks to me that the routes are relying on the use of small County Roads for much of their length, instead of using primarily State Routes. 

I can’t say for sure what all of the others did in the past, but I do know that for the two STAR events held in Lexington, KY the routes were almost exclusively made up of State Routes.

Kentucky uses a number designation that works like this….the larger the road, the fewer the numbers.  So for example, a route with 1-2 numbers would tend to be a more heavily driven road than one with 4 digits.  (SR 32 v SR1054).  The smallest of roads (many just 1 lane or 1 1/2 lanes wide) would generally have only a name.  We didn’t use those roads except on a couple of the routes for a few miles.

In WV, it seems that the State Routes are all the 1-2 digit roads, and beyond that we have County Road numbers.  (SR-7 v CR-7).  I can’t say for sure, but I’m betting that the road signs for the county roads will either not have the County Road # on them or will only have it written very small, and will instead have the Road Name on them.

Only time will tell.

Probably a good idea to pick up a DeLome Gazetteer for West Virginia if you’re going to rely on maps and not GPS to follow the routes.

[stevegrab]

Pat that is definitely out of the norm in my years of experience attending club events and following routes. Certainly going back to the pre GPS days it was all more main roads, and even after use of GPS was common most routes were still primarily state and US highways.

I would hope that these less major roads have been ridden to some extent to be sure of the road quality (ripped up pavement, gravel, etc) and that they are not of the famous "WV road" variety where its one lane of pavement down the middle, with a half lane of gravel on each side. (First time I encountered one the oncoming pickup thought they owned the paved portion and expected me to give up my half lane and ride in gravel. Kind of unnerving to say the least.)

I will definitely be doing some detailed review of these routes to see what they contain.

[Patmo]

I’ve finished almost all of the routes now and I’ve found something else of interest….

Is seems that the County Roads are repeated in each county.  So you can be riding along on CR-1, cross the county line, and it suddenly becomes CR-6….AND in some cases, the NAME changes too……travel a little further and have to turn back onto a road designated CR-1, with a totally different name, but it’s CR-1 for a different county than the former CR-1.

Also…keep in mind that because of the location of the resort, roads going east can easily run into Virginia, and ones running north can run into Maryland.  That can result in a State Route number change.

All this SOUNDS very confusing, but really it’s not when put into actual practice.  MANY of the routes, especially those running south of the resort, really rely on State Routes for all, or mostly all, of their roads. A lot of the CR usage is in order to get from one state route to another, or to take you to a state park or other destination.   If you don’t have a GPS, there are still many of the routes that you’ll be able to run pretty easily.  Just spend some time prior to getting there looking at them with a state map besides you, and you’ll be able to figure them out pretty easily.  There are only so many main roads running through the state and all of the routes use some of them.

One additional piece of advice…..when heading out into rural mountain country, don’t rely on their being lots of gas stations everywhere, there aren’t.  Norm’s routes have gas stops written into them, but it’s never a bad idea to gas up whenever you have a chance.

[stevegrab]

Thanks for the additional info Pat. That situation with county roads is the same in Ohio, each county has their own set of numbered roads. Most times I am using the county roads to link up my favorite pieces of state highways so I'm not often on them long enough to transition to a new county and see the number or name change. But they can be more difficult to follow visually (not labeled as well).

[Larry Fine]

wbgva_roadkill is THE man to ask about roads in W VA, and I think he has route files.

[wbgva_roadkill]

Thanks Larry, I "might" have helped already with these routes. 

John