Group Riding in MSTA

[touringman]

Wonder where the EC might be in this discussion? It would be nice to hear some of them weigh in on this. Cooperation will be needed from them in facilitating any plan. The implied message that I'm getting from Norm is that we need to do something about this situation, but he is firmly set in the very good ride plan he has developed. So that means that most of the responsibility for flexibility lies with everyone else? How many have developed similar groups and rules(or guidelines) that almost preclude the inclusion of new people? Sorry Norm, I have utmost respect for you, your knowledge, and your abilities, but if all of us follow the same prescription, we'll end up like that religious sect (help me with the name!) that refrained from sexual intercourse! In that instance, the sect was short lived. That's where we stand right now. Most of us are older(thus the problem), and we may correctly assume that we have a source of contemporaries that we can ride with as long as we'll be able to ride. What about the future of the MSTA, and new people who could learn to enjoy what we're doing for the rest of their lives? I enjoy meeting new people, and learning what we might share that enriches both our lives. I recently learned a neat little saying from my wife and her bible study. Those who are very obstinate, often become obsolete. Why do I care about those who come after, don't know, just made that way.

[TN2Wheeler]

I think one reason our membership is shrinking is that there are significant generational difference in attitudes about motorcycles. In my admittedly limited view of younger riders (<40 and even more so for <30) there appears to be little interest in travel or touring by motorcycle. To do so requires free time and financial resources both of which are more challenging for younger riders who often have family and job constraints.

[RIDEMYST]

I believe an aging market is a problem in the entire motorcycle industry, Go to any major bike event and it is largely comprised of 50 to 60 year olds. In addition, when you are 25 years old it's difficult not only to have that $15-25K to plop down on a new toy but moreover have the 2-3 weeks a year to travel on it. I suspect there has been many a discussion in the Harley Davidson Board Room on this very topic.
As to the EC involvement in group riding, many of you may not be aware but this is being addressed.
At STAR this year in addition to the "Ambassador" program there were group ride sign up sheets available for everyone. This was pointed out at the new members meeting at the beginning of the event. I believe it was a complete success (EC folks chime in here?).

Good dialog here! Wish we had more threads like this. -JEP-

[Steve]

Shakers!

[DirtFlier]

[I think one reason our membership is shrinking is that there are significant generational difference in attitudes about motorcycles...]

You can include cars into that group with motorcycles because there are a growing number of young people who feel there is no real need to own a car, and some are even choosing to move to locales where better  public transportation is available
. 

[ipnman]

Yes, this is a very good and needed discussion. The EC will continue the Ambassador program and Group ride sign-up sheets at STAR. I think both were a success, but there's room for improvement. We will monitor this thread and discuss implementing ideas that make sense for our organization.   

[normkern]

The implied message that I'm getting from Norm is that we need to do something about this situation, but he is firmly set in the very good ride plan he has developed. So that means that most of the responsibility for flexibility lies with everyone else? How many have developed similar groups and rules(or guidelines) that almost preclude the inclusion of new people?

Syd,

I've worked with about 8 outsiders/newbies this past season to include them in my group, ride with them individually outside a rally etc.

While I'm pleased with the way my group has turned out, my rules are not offered as a blueprint for others, but rather an example. Everyone needs to develop their own rules that suit them.

People who want to ride with others in a particular style should be encouraged to articulate what that style is and make it known, so those who share their interest can find them. The Ambassador program is a welcome step in that direction.

A tougher question is how to encourage more people to be willing to lead, and to help them develop their skills. Would anyone be interested in a riding weekend where they could go and learn these skills?

Another approach is to develop leadership depth within one's own group. That way the group still functions if the normal leader is absent at a particular event. Such a group can more easily split when there are too many riders on a particular day.

Norm Kern

[touringman]

Very good points Norm, and I would be willing to take a weekend to work on those skills. I'm also guilty  of preferring to follow, rather than lead, though I have ended up leading many times. I still have a lot to learn.

[Landon]

Its interesting that most people prefer to follow vs lead. I've personally always enjoyed leading myself as I get to set the pace that I enjoy. Its not terribly difficult if you have a gps with the route loaded into it. Although my fault as a leader is that I typically don't stop often enough for other riders, if I have gas in the tank I don't normally have much reason to stop.

A lot of the people I ride with when I go to a rally may be people I only have the chance to ride with once a year and therefor I am not real interested in finding someone that's new to ride with. Most of us probably feel that way. I think we all could work on inviting new faces on a ride with us, but it is important to set some expectations up front with the rider prior to leaving. I've been there myself at my first Tristar, I showed up late Friday evening and didn't get the chance to meet anyone there that night. Saturday morning I stood in the parking lot and watched group after group leave not wanting to insert myself into a group without being invited. I finally found another new member standing alone and we went off together as I lead and had the route in my gps. We had a great ride, but I didn't necessarily feel welcomed by the "club". If I hadn't already meet and known so many great club members back in Indiana I probably wouldn't be a member today.

[OldButNotDead]

The implied message that I'm getting from Norm is that we need to do something about this situation, but he is firmly set in the very good ride plan he has developed. So that means that most of the responsibility for flexibility lies with everyone else? How many have developed similar groups and rules(or guidelines) that almost preclude the inclusion of new people?

Syd,

I've worked with about 8 outsiders/newbies this past season to include them in my group, ride with them individually outside a rally etc.

While I'm pleased with the way my group has turned out, my rules are not offered as a blueprint for others, but rather an example. Everyone needs to develop their own rules that suit them.

People who want to ride with others in a particular style should be encouraged to articulate what that style is and make it known, so those who share their interest can find them. The Ambassador program is a welcome step in that direction.

A tougher question is how to encourage more people to be willing to lead, and to help them develop their skills. Would anyone be interested in a riding weekend where they could go and learn these skills?

Another approach is to develop leadership depth within one's own group. That way the group still functions if the normal leader is absent at a particular event. Such a group can more easily split when there are too many riders on a particular day.

Norm Kern

I recently attended a managerial conference/discussion where they discussed management styles.  We were being told that we, the old style managers, needed to adapt to the young guys.  I would tell you exactly what I thought of that point of view but I would be banned from the forum due to "language" usage.  Did you ever think that maybe we should keep the social ties alive until people who didn't appreciate them were no longer replenishing the herd???   I DO NOT go to the events for the social aspects.  My wife tells me my social skills are limited anyway.  I go to do one thing -- RIDE!  I just happen to have a couple friends in MSTA that feel like I do.  MSTA is just a vehicle for me to ride with those friends.  I have no problems with putting up a board on Friday night saying - Tom, Dick, Harry and I are riding route #3 tomorrow.  We run at 10 over speed limit and pass on double yellow lines.  We stop for breaks every X hours.  We plan to eat at ------ around noon.  Wheels will be turning and burning at 8 am.  If you want to ride with us, come see me in room 123.  Have your bike fueled and ready to go.   There could be other less abrasive posts for other groups. 

[Patmo]

Yes, this is a very good and needed discussion. The EC will continue the Ambassador program and Group ride sign-up sheets at STAR. I think both were a success, but there's room for improvement. We will monitor this thread and discuss implementing ideas that make sense for our organization.   

I'd like to see those forms downloaded onto this site, and made available as a template for use at all the different events we hold.

[fartymarty]

  I have no problems with putting up a board on Friday night saying ......... We run at 10 over speed limit and pass on double yellow lines.   

I understand this philosophy or method of riding, and I know many that do it that way. However, I would urge caution about posting it that way, someday some lawyer is going to love you for doing it and an insurer (event or personal) will dislike you in an equal or greater proportion.
Might be best to keep it verbal. 

You reference to STN and STO . . . .

What are these?

STN=Sport Touring . NET   http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php
STO=Sport Touring . ORG   http://www.sport-touring.org/

[OldButNotDead]

The logical implication of your post is ride with people you know or ride alone.  I just amended my sign to say "Tom, Dick, Harry and I are leaving at 9 am." Then we leave at 8 am to avoid legal entanglements.

[Patmo]

The signup sheets do basically what the sign says...

Place/Time to meet/leave
Route planned to take
Type of riding.....casual, stop and smell the roses, sport
And they limit the group size

While at STAR there is a need for more than 1 person/leader to be involved in this, at the regional events I doubt there would be a need for more than 1, possibly 2, people to help lead this. 

[OldButNotDead]

Pat,
The guys who used to have this down to a science were the RAT guys.  They used to have events called RAID's.  Most were organized, a few were gaggles of confusion too.  Having two guys was kind of the norm, one on lead and the other a sweep rider because of the large disparity of rider experience levels.  When they had a major RAID going in a place like Emporium or St.Mary's, PA there were groups running all over central PA.  Some on Sprints, some on classics, some fast movers, some leaf peepers.  Individual RAT organizations would sponsor group rides all the time.  As time passed so has the RAT's.  A few years back the FJRiders would have a group ride EVERY weekend usually around the Cherohala, Deals Gap, TWO areas.  No more. You do see large gagles of HD's but I'm still not convinced they are motorcycle riders.  BMW clubs put on some large group rides too, but you can fall asleep riding with them.