Group Riding in MSTA

[rideandfly]

Norm, this is not on topic, but I believe part of this conversation touched on expanding membership. Also believe group ride size of two or three to be a good size.

Let my MSTA membership expire a few years ago. Rode in a group a few years ago that Norm led at Sparta and later that year at the Big Lynn Event. Roomed with Syd at the Big Lynn Event. Both events have very good memories for me.

Now that my Wife & I are both retired, we ride mostly two-up on a Vstrom. Bought her two bikes for her to learn about riding on and off pavement. We enjoy camping around the nation with a travel trailer, eventually plan to to transport bikes around the nation with a toy hauler and ride where we camp. During our last 5 week trip last summer we visited 12 states and Canada.

Attracting younger/additional riders was mentioned earlier in this thread. During our travels around the lower 48 have seen (younger) groups Sport/DS meeting at campgrounds for rides, either camping or staying in the campground's cabins. ADV, BMW, and Cruiser groups also meet at campgrounds.

From the outside looking in, would it possible to include MSTA folks staying at a local campground in MSTA event planning? There are nice campgrounds public & private around the nation with nice restrooms, showers, cabins, and laundry facilities in the middle of fantastic roads.

First time I've ever been on a ride with car, really enjoyed the ride & fellowship that day, at the Big Lynn NC event:






Sparta NC event:

[Patmo]

This does take this thread off subject, but.......

I think that trying to incorporate camping availability into our events whenever possible, is a good idea and may do something to address the cost issues that some people (both old and young) have. 


......I admit that this has nothing to do with " group riding " however.   

[rideandfly]

Back on topic I hope ,  Believe the best size group to be 2 to 3 riders.

Guess this is the flight instructor side coming out,  try to talk to new riders about right hand gravel, reason it occurs, where to ride when gravel is expected, use of brakes including trail braking and reasons, and how to reel the bike back in if the rear steps out in a curve. Riding your own ride and the leader waiting at the next stop sign. Like to talk about oncoming traffic on our side of the road in curves, being prepared. Some how ended up at the rear of a group one day, but able to give advance turn instructions to the leader via GMRS radio.

Last time I rode with a group while leading, stopped at a stop sign checking traffic, another rider ran into & damaged the rear of my Ninja because he didn't expect me to come to a full stop.

[stevegrab]

I'm still catching up and trying to offer my own perspective. I joined the NE Ohio group of HSTA folks about 15 years ago and started doing day rides with them all over Ohio. Then I started going to rallies, I was still a relative newb to riding and was glad to be welcomed and get some advice and guidance from others. Flash forward 5+ years and some of our older members ride less, or are simply not around. Those who used to plan and lead rides are looking for help so I stepped in. I really enjoyed it and wondered (still do) why these much more experienced guys want me to lead them. Maybe its my map/road knowledge or my less hectic pace that keeps us in check (its a public road after all not a racetrack). It certainly isn't my riding skills, though I am getting better.
Flash forward another 5 years or so and it now seems like there is no weekend riding unless I plan something. When we go to an event if people want to group ride they find me and ask "where you going tomorrow." I don't mind the leading, and actually enjoy certain parts of it. But it just seems that too few people (even ones who've been riding for 30-40 years) have an interest in leading. I've asked about that before and don't get much in the way of an answer. Maybe they think I'm a control freak and now that I'm leading don't want to give it up. (They should have never given me this power.)
When I attend a rally I've always gone with at least one other local member. We ride together, if there are 4-6 or more we all ride together, with more we'll usually have multiple groups, sometimes doing the same ride. If there are only 2-3-4 of us occassionally (less than 5%) we'll join some other group and ride with them. We've also occassionally welcomed some other rider to join us. But for the vast majority of the time we are our group, and we ride that way. We don't really have any set rules, we just know what works. Sometimes we have a larger group, and linger at stops and BS more. We don't see each other often so that's fine, and we're not trying to get back by 3PM either (of course we left at 8-9 not 5-6).
Yes I know that doesn't help to get others to come along and join us, but it is what we do and what I suspect most members do. You may ride with people from other areas, but generally its your primary riding group at events.
I'm not sure how we change that or that you can change that. You aren't suddenly going to find others willing to lead rides for strangers if they don't lead rides with their friends or local riders. And those already leading are not going to want to add to their group, or leave their group to ride with others.
I think part of the problem (may have said this before) is people think that they come to an event and there is organized group riding, there isn't really. And I'm not sure how well it would work or if it is something that we really should be pushing for. I think the answer lies more in the local groups, but understand some members don't have a local group, they're the 2 new members from Rhode Island and nobody else is there (example).
Both Jims made good points about the generational gap, younger riders not having the time and money to travel. There's also a different attitude in wearing gear, being safe, not acting like a hooligan, etc. Most of that stuff won't sit well with an MSTA group, take off doing a wheelie from a stop and I'll pull over and ask you to leave. And Tosh is right about even cars, don't have kids but my 18 year old Nephew has no car and no desire to drive, have heard form co-workers with one or more kid that is the same.
One thing I've told my local riders, if we rode 15 years ago (when I was a newb) like we did today (faster, poor group riding etiquette, etc.) I'm not sure I would have stuck around. (I was mid 30s then, single had the money and a passion for riding, but scared silly about the potential dangers.)
 

[normkern]

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Steve. Lots of things to think about.

Norm Kern

[fartymarty]

Excellent discussion you've gotten started here Norm.

I very much liked your post defining Interest Group Riding. I think with almost any group, including those that have ridden together in the past, that a little pre-ride discussion should be had about #8 (passing slower traffic) in the goals. Most will not hesitate to ride over the speed limit or make group rolling stops to avoid being excessively strung out after every stop sign, but passing on double yellow stripes and making multiple vehicle passes at once should perhaps be noted by the leader before the start of the ride unless all in the group ride together frequently. I have frequently exceeded the speed limit and have occasionally made rolling stops with a group or even alone if the stop location had hazards to my short legs stability (gravel and slope). However, I really hate passing on double yellow unless it is clear and obvious that the driver/rider of the vehicle being passed desires me to do so.  Being motorcycle riders we forget how difficult driving is for some auto drivers even without the leaning. If you watch enough you'll see some sticking their tongue out the corner of their mouths for a simple little turn, very reminiscent of small children trying in vain to color within the lines. These types are usually at the front or middle of a slow pack of cars and they are so focused on the skills needed to turn left into their driveway that they will not even think to check their left mirror (or use their turn signal) to see if anyone is passing them when they decide it's time to turn left. Then there are those drivers that pull out of their private roads or driveways intending to go right that only look to the left when they pull out, never even looking to the right to see if someone is passing in their lane until after they are well out into the road. Yes pass quickly when able, but don't get the "must stay with the group" mentality that you feel pressure to pass large groups of cars or try to pass in questionable areas. Sometimes it's just best to fall back from the group so you'll be able to ride with them again some other day. Regardless of these remarks about #8, that whole post seemed to me to be well thought out and spot on for group riding.  

[normkern]

Farty Marty,

Thanks for your comments, friendship and support. The Michigan Squadron group riding document linked earlier in this thread has some great ideas about passing and what to do if one or more of the group gets stopped by a LEO. I'm going to include some of those ideas in my personal group rules for next season.

Hope we can ride together at some events in 2016!

Norm Kern

[stevegrab]

FartyMarty,

One thing I've tried to make clear with all people I ride with (since I do a lot of leading) is "I will pass on the double yellow, I will pass in corners and I will pass at times when it is only safe for me."  As the leader if I never make an attempt to pass nobody will.

If I know the road (where the passing zones are) or can see them on my GPS (the straights ahead) I'll start getting ready and may even go before that hoping others in the group will then follow WHEN IT IS SAFE.

I also try to avoid a lot of that waving people to continue passing behind me. First it very hard to tell if the lead rider is waving "come on" or making a sign to "get back, pull in". It also iisn't too safe and gives them the impression I'm maknig the decision for them. I've had a few riders show me a technique where the lead rider stays in the oncoming lane while it is safe, something that works really well on  long flat sections of road.

One last thing on passing, I've found that when I get behind slower traffic in the twisties, the only time to pass some cars is in corners or at insane high speeds on straights. Because when the corners tighten up they slow down, and when it gets straight they blast off. I do try to avoid making passes too close to cars, especiall when you move over in front of them. If they think you're being reckless and cutting them off they may call the law, or worse yet decide to run you off the road (have experienced it and seen the videos).

[normkern]

FartyMarty,

One thing I've tried to make clear with all people I ride with (since I do a lot of leading) is "I will pass on the double yellow, I will pass in corners and I will pass at times when it is only safe for me."  As the leader if I never make an attempt to pass nobody will.
 

Steve,

One of the HUGE benefits our group had this season was that most of us have Sena 20S BT units running group intercom. The lead person becomes the "eyes" for oncoming traffic, hazards etc. up ahead after they pass, making it much safer for the rest to get around the slow-moving traffic. The tail rider also confirms to the leader that everyone got around.

The BT communication makes it easy for anyone to tell the group they need to stop, drop out etc. Well worth the investment!

Norm Kern